Thomas Koehle
Well-Known Member
Looks like a USN MK I knife on his life vest
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Some of the 4th FG and a lot of A-2s
- Thread starter Smithy
- Start date
Looks like a USN MK I knife on his life vest
B-Man2
Well-Known Member
I sure hope he’s sitting on something otherwise it’s going to be a little tight for headroom in that spits cockpit.A really early Dude of the Day here,
Lt Bob Messenger of 336 with a Spit Vb which has only just recently had the US star (note no bar) painted directly over the RAF roundel after transfer from the RAF to the USAAF. That A-2 is probably also fairly newly issued.
Smithy
Well-Known Member
Bit of wind in the hair Burt!
The seat will be racked up to its highest position and the parachute pack is probably on the seat. Well we hope so at least.
These transitional period pics from the RAF to the USAAF are really interesting and because the 4th was the only group to do so they are the only examples in the USAAF.
The seat will be racked up to its highest position and the parachute pack is probably on the seat. Well we hope so at least.
These transitional period pics from the RAF to the USAAF are really interesting and because the 4th was the only group to do so they are the only examples in the USAAF.
Cocker
Well-Known Member
@B-Man2 This doesn't look like a reco version to me. There's 20mm canons and the big Vokes filter, this is most probably a Mk.Vc. The national insignia has the yellow "Operation Torch" border, and the last letter of the squadron code seems to be an "L", so I assume the 2 letters should be HL, must be 308th FS / 31st FG.
Cocker
Well-Known Member
I'd be interested to see this, indeed!
Smithy
Well-Known Member
I think it was only on Goodson and Dixie Alexander's Spits which had this and for a very short time. They'd sought permission from Don Blakeslee to make the first flight of an American marked aircraft over Europe and he'd agreed on the proviso that the Spits carried US markings. These were hastily painted on using someone's Star of David necklace as a template.
I'll have a fossick about after work for a pic.
Smithy
Well-Known Member
Here you go Cédric, it's a profile from Bucholtz's book on the 4th and his research is usually impeccable. Here's a quote of Goody from an interview,
"...we'd have to have stars on our wings and had trouble trying to draw them in place of the English roundels. Finally my crew chief Manny Green, who was Jewish, said he had a Star of David which we could copy. We later found out that wasn't like the Air Force star at all, but our first few missions over Europe were flown under the Star of David."
The aircraft serial is BL722, a Castle Bromwich manufactured Vb. If you want a higher resolution copy PM me as it's no trouble.
"...we'd have to have stars on our wings and had trouble trying to draw them in place of the English roundels. Finally my crew chief Manny Green, who was Jewish, said he had a Star of David which we could copy. We later found out that wasn't like the Air Force star at all, but our first few missions over Europe were flown under the Star of David."
The aircraft serial is BL722, a Castle Bromwich manufactured Vb. If you want a higher resolution copy PM me as it's no trouble.
Flightengineer
Well-Known Member
Burt, I remember there is another one Spit in USAF Museum with USAF insignia. She is overall gray color and she is exactly the photo reconnaissance version - Spitfire PR.XI
I love this museum ! Every time I was in the States and always visited this wonderful place.
B-Man2
Well-Known Member
Dimitry
The Wright Patterson Museum in Dayton Ohio and the Air and Space Museum in Washington DC are my favorite places to visit. I’ve been to each of them numerous times. I would highly recommend them to anyone visiting those areas of the US.
Flightengineer
Well-Known Member
O yeah...Agree with you. I was in the Museum in Washington once, in Dayton several times, and if I’ll be in America again, I’ll definitely come to Wright Patterson again...here even planes smell like living flying planes, not like stuffed ... As soon as I enter the hangar ... I immediately feel it.
Cocker
Well-Known Member
Here you go Cédric, it's a profile from Bucholtz's book on the 4th and his research is usually impeccable. Here's a quote of Goody from an interview,
"...we'd have to have stars on our wings and had trouble trying to draw them in place of the English roundels. Finally my crew chief Manny Green, who was Jewish, said he had a Star of David which we could copy. We later found out that wasn't like the Air Force star at all, but our first few missions over Europe were flown under the Star of David."
The aircraft serial is BL722, a Castle Bromwich manufactured Vb. If you want a higher resolution copy PM me as it's no trouble.
That's quite amazing, but I admit I find it somewhat hard to believe! I fail to see how they didn't manage to draw a star and had to use a model for it, especially this one. Still makes for a great story though!
Smithy
Well-Known Member
It probably could be written off as Goody's memory playing tricks or line shooting Cédric except for the fact that there's several other reports (separate from him) of these six pointed stars used on the first 4th FG op(s). During this very early transition period they were also relying on RAF supplied groundcrew who obviously would have had no idea what a USAAF star should look like let alone how a USAAF aircraft should be correctly marked - and actually the Eagles themselves had never previously served in the USAAF coming from RCAF and RAF backgrounds so were equally clueless initially. They were probably only carried for less than a handful of ops and therefore only on for most likely a day or two.
Smithy
Well-Known Member
Dude of the Day...
I was talking about this fellow yesterday in relation to Irvins in US use but here he is in an A-2 (as you can see this is fairly new having been issued probably a couple of months before this picture was taken on his transfer from the Eagles to the 4th).
Richard Braley of 336 in his Jug.
I was talking about this fellow yesterday in relation to Irvins in US use but here he is in an A-2 (as you can see this is fairly new having been issued probably a couple of months before this picture was taken on his transfer from the Eagles to the 4th).
Richard Braley of 336 in his Jug.
Smithy
Well-Known Member
Dudes of the Day...
Two of the biggest personalities of the 4th today, The Playboy and The Boss - Vic France and Don Blakeslee, here relaxing at Debden. Vic was lost chasing a 109 at extreme low level, hitting the ground, Don obviously went on to become one of the best fighter leaders of the war, in fact many in the RAF even thought that Don was the best in this role. Both were Eagle pilots and as a bit of trivia used to wear cowboy boots (although not in this image), Vic even wore them when in the RAF. Both were a very big hit with the ladies unsurprisingly!
Two of the biggest personalities of the 4th today, The Playboy and The Boss - Vic France and Don Blakeslee, here relaxing at Debden. Vic was lost chasing a 109 at extreme low level, hitting the ground, Don obviously went on to become one of the best fighter leaders of the war, in fact many in the RAF even thought that Don was the best in this role. Both were Eagle pilots and as a bit of trivia used to wear cowboy boots (although not in this image), Vic even wore them when in the RAF. Both were a very big hit with the ladies unsurprisingly!
