Sideslip
Well-Known Member
For a second, I thought it was a photo of reenactors given the eclectic attire in one place!
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Random Cool Photo Thread
- Thread starter Smithy
- Start date
Enigma1938
Well-Known Member
My opinion is based on the facts that such "fakings" were not uncommon back then ( for propaganda reasons for example) and the way like everything on this photo is relatively sharp, even the palm trees in the distance but the Stuka is kinda blurry and just don't fit in the rest of the pic - seems just strange somehow.
But ok I cannot prove my opinion and maybe I'm wrong.
FlakMagnet
Well-Known Member
He'd be super trendy in 2023.
Greg Gale
Well-Known Member
Smithy
Well-Known Member
Greg it's 100% the real deal.
It's not from a press clipping or an edited professional press shot or anything like that. It's from a Kiwi soldier who served in an AA unit and from his own collection of photos he took during the war. It is just a bog standard non-professional photograph. When it was found in NZ it was covered in the local media as its rightly been recognised as an extraordinary photo.
Smithy
Well-Known Member
One of the hardest worked squadrons in the RAF (according to Lord Tedder) and also one of the hardest playing squadrons in the RAF. These guys had a reputation for fighting very hard but also for very hard partying - their mess bashes and trips on the town were legendary.
486 Sqn at Grimbergen in September '44 (as always click on the image for the big version)...
486 Sqn at Grimbergen in September '44 (as always click on the image for the big version)...
B-Man2
Well-Known Member
Tim
How much better was the Tempest at dog fighting the ME-109 and the FW-190 compared to the Mustang ?
Smithy
Well-Known Member
It's kind of an unjust proposition as both aircraft had significantly different operational roles.
The Tempest was a brute Burt. One of the ultimate piston-engined aircraft, ridiculously fast and with enormous firepower. They mostly operated at low to medium altitudes and here they were pretty much unparalleled. One thing which belied their vast size was the fact that they were stunningly manoeuvrable at the altitudes they operated in and the victory claims list against 109s and 190s demonstrates how they were an excellent dogfighter.
The Mustang was the best escort fighter of the war because it had the legs to go deep into the Reich at high altitude and was a great dogfighter in experienced hands.
As was often the case the better the pilot the better the results but both could hold their own against 109s and 190s and especially in the final months of the war when the quality of pilots in the LW was not very good for the most part.
Kermit3D
Well-Known Member
Yeah, the Tempest is a fabulous mid- to low-altitude fighter. It also excelled in ground attack missions. Its Napier Sabre engine (with its unique architecture) gives the Tempest incredible performance.
At medium and low altitude, I think nothing could equal a Tempest at the end of the war.
An important point about German fighters, which I didn't fully realize until I read Peter Henn's excellent book "The Last Battle":
From 1943/1944, quality fuel supplies became difficult for the Germans, and mechanical parts were of lower quality (due to factory bombing, material shortages, sabotage, etc.).
In his book, Peter Henn explains that the reliability of Messerschmitts 109 engines was VERY uncertain. Sometimes you'd get a good plane, and sometimes, as was very often the case, you'd get a plane that accumulated mechanical problems.
Peter Henn says that on missions, it was often impossible to exceed 60-70% throttle because the engine could break. Engines often ran very badly, and the pilots were afraid to fly over the sea.
All this to say that, at the end of the war, the theoretical performance of German fighters was undoubtedly greatly overestimated in relation to reality.
At medium and low altitude, I think nothing could equal a Tempest at the end of the war.
An important point about German fighters, which I didn't fully realize until I read Peter Henn's excellent book "The Last Battle":
From 1943/1944, quality fuel supplies became difficult for the Germans, and mechanical parts were of lower quality (due to factory bombing, material shortages, sabotage, etc.).
In his book, Peter Henn explains that the reliability of Messerschmitts 109 engines was VERY uncertain. Sometimes you'd get a good plane, and sometimes, as was very often the case, you'd get a plane that accumulated mechanical problems.
Peter Henn says that on missions, it was often impossible to exceed 60-70% throttle because the engine could break. Engines often ran very badly, and the pilots were afraid to fly over the sea.
All this to say that, at the end of the war, the theoretical performance of German fighters was undoubtedly greatly overestimated in relation to reality.
Lorenzo_l
Well-Known Member
According to Wikipedia's article on the Tempest (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Tempest),
"In air-to-air combat, the Tempest units achieved an estimated air combat success ratio of about 8:1, scoring 239 confirmed victories (not including the additional "victories" against the unmanned V-1 flying bomb), 9 probable victories; losses: 31 including probable ones. "
Not bad considering that the Tempest was operating mostly at low to medium altitudes and providing a lot of ground support and intercepting V-1s. It was not used a pure dogfighter/air superiority aircraft in the same manner and purpose that the P-51 was.
"In air-to-air combat, the Tempest units achieved an estimated air combat success ratio of about 8:1, scoring 239 confirmed victories (not including the additional "victories" against the unmanned V-1 flying bomb), 9 probable victories; losses: 31 including probable ones. "
Not bad considering that the Tempest was operating mostly at low to medium altitudes and providing a lot of ground support and intercepting V-1s. It was not used a pure dogfighter/air superiority aircraft in the same manner and purpose that the P-51 was.
Smithy
Well-Known Member
Not a Napier Sabre engined one at the moment but Kermit Weeks has an ex-486 one that he wants to.
Lorenzo_l
Well-Known Member
Lo and behold, one has been restored to airworthy condition and flew again for the first time (post-restoration) in early October. The only airworthy example as far as I am aware:
Hawker Tempest II Flies Again at Sywell Aerodrome
warbirdsnews.com
It's a Tempest MK. II, powered by Bristol Centaurus radial engine, as opposed to the Tempest MK. V in the clip and pictures in previous posts, powered by a Napier Sabre in-line engine.
Smithy
Well-Known Member
Lo and behold, one has been restored to airworthy condition and flew again for the first time (post-restoration) in early October. The only airworthy example as far as I am aware:
Hawker Tempest II Flies Again at Sywell Aerodrome
It's a Tempest MK. II, powered by Bristol Centaurus radial engine, as opposed to the Tempest MK. V in the clip and pictures in previous posts, powered by a Napier Sabre in-line engine.
The II is nice and very close to the Sea Fury but boy oh boy just imagine if they got a V airborne, now that would be special. From those who heard both back then, apparently the Napier Sabre sounded far better and angrier than the Centaurus II.
Come on Kermit pull your finger out and get that V in the air. And it better bloody have 486 Sqn SA- codes on it!
Shanghai-Mayne
Well-Known Member
Halloween at Shanghai
Smithy
Well-Known Member
These girls never get enough mention or praise.
Dolores “Jackie” Moggridge of the absolutely essential Air Transport Auxiliary (ATA). She was just aged 20 when she joined the ATA and had only 2 weeks training with the ATA before beginning ferrying aircraft. By war's end she'd flown an astonishing 83 different types of aircraft.
Dolores “Jackie” Moggridge of the absolutely essential Air Transport Auxiliary (ATA). She was just aged 20 when she joined the ATA and had only 2 weeks training with the ATA before beginning ferrying aircraft. By war's end she'd flown an astonishing 83 different types of aircraft.
