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FIVESTAR LEATHER B3 JACKETS
- Thread starter Shawn Ali
- Start date
ties70
Well-Known Member
Well, it is too early for the drinks here in rainy Hamburg...
I should probably take @Micawber 's advice, calm my nerves and let it be....but on the other hand, I do not find this whole discussion offensive at all, but rather refreshing. So please allow me some last comments or follow-up questions:
@stanier:
I am trying to see your point, and yes, coming strictly from the point of patterns / specs a shorter-fleeced jacket, patterned after the B-3 specs, is not a B-3 per se.
Would you come to that same conclusion for other jackets / makers as well?
For example, the various B-10 jackets that are available:
ATF's plushy-lined B-10 / PIKE's wool lined version / Chinese makers wool/nylon blend....not a B-10, as the alpaca lining might be something so fundamentally B-10-ish that its absence turns these jackets into "olive drab blousons with a teddy collar"?
The praised ATF fleece-lined tankers? The most characteristic detail of a Tanker jackets might be the blanket lining...
What about ELC's blanket-lined A-2?
Or AERO's "field modified A-2" with the fur collar...
"If you want a fur collar or a warmer jacket, why not get a G-1 or a B-10?"
"Because it has some historical credibility!" "Yes, but it was a compromise, where somebody messed around with the original specs..."
Again, not trying to offend anybody here.
If you say "It's gotta be 100 percent authenticity or bust", then that's a valid point, and even more so, if you would agree regarding the above-mentioned "flaws" in other makers and not limit your criticism to FS jackets or Shawn's service attitude.
@Micawber:
The argument "Get the original, wear the hell out of it!"....yeah, a penny for every time I have heard that, but my point was exactly that I do not live and work in an environment where it is possible to put an original spec'd B-3 into its intended use..
I would go so far to say, that nobody around here (except for @ausreenactor , maybe) has a job description that says "Young man wanted for frequent traveling, will be a shot at in extreme cold and breezy environment".
And yes, that brings us back to the philosophical discussion of "Why having a reproduction of something that was intended for something that is so far off your own personal life circumstances?" Because I like to...and I think that we all share this reason.
I was never talking about Shawn making me a jacket "to look cool in my heated office", by the way. I am pretty sure that I look cool in my office, anyway
On last point:
This comparison between a thinner sheepskin B-3 and the "I have trimmed my B-3 by myself" story ....really? Is that honestly in the same ballpark?
Love, peace and happiness!
Ties
I should probably take @Micawber 's advice, calm my nerves and let it be....but on the other hand, I do not find this whole discussion offensive at all, but rather refreshing. So please allow me some last comments or follow-up questions:
@stanier:
I am trying to see your point, and yes, coming strictly from the point of patterns / specs a shorter-fleeced jacket, patterned after the B-3 specs, is not a B-3 per se.
Would you come to that same conclusion for other jackets / makers as well?
For example, the various B-10 jackets that are available:
ATF's plushy-lined B-10 / PIKE's wool lined version / Chinese makers wool/nylon blend....not a B-10, as the alpaca lining might be something so fundamentally B-10-ish that its absence turns these jackets into "olive drab blousons with a teddy collar"?
The praised ATF fleece-lined tankers? The most characteristic detail of a Tanker jackets might be the blanket lining...
What about ELC's blanket-lined A-2?
Or AERO's "field modified A-2" with the fur collar...
"If you want a fur collar or a warmer jacket, why not get a G-1 or a B-10?"
"Because it has some historical credibility!" "Yes, but it was a compromise, where somebody messed around with the original specs..."
Again, not trying to offend anybody here.
If you say "It's gotta be 100 percent authenticity or bust", then that's a valid point, and even more so, if you would agree regarding the above-mentioned "flaws" in other makers and not limit your criticism to FS jackets or Shawn's service attitude.
@Micawber:
The argument "Get the original, wear the hell out of it!"....yeah, a penny for every time I have heard that, but my point was exactly that I do not live and work in an environment where it is possible to put an original spec'd B-3 into its intended use..
I would go so far to say, that nobody around here (except for @ausreenactor , maybe) has a job description that says "Young man wanted for frequent traveling, will be a shot at in extreme cold and breezy environment".
And yes, that brings us back to the philosophical discussion of "Why having a reproduction of something that was intended for something that is so far off your own personal life circumstances?" Because I like to...and I think that we all share this reason.
I was never talking about Shawn making me a jacket "to look cool in my heated office", by the way. I am pretty sure that I look cool in my office, anyway
On last point:
This comparison between a thinner sheepskin B-3 and the "I have trimmed my B-3 by myself" story ....really? Is that honestly in the same ballpark?
Love, peace and happiness!
Ties
stanier
Well-Known Member
Just to be clear, for me personally and only personally, I am not a fan of the cheap B-10's with inaccurate fabrics, and do not own one. I've posted on the Bronson thread about using 100% wool rather than a wool / acrylic blend on their C-2 thread. I have purchased their current C-2 as it is incredibly cheap and for my job it is entirely practical and at the price a bargain I couldn't pass up after many months of consideration. But, it isnt an accurate C-2. I would like a navy one, but don't put a C-2 label in, like Real McCoys did in their navy civilian C-2.
And those ATF tankers etc, personally leave me cold, in more ways than one...
I don't have an issue with a leather B-10, as long as it's not pretending its an authentic B-10, and the Aero A-2 and ELC A-2 were field mod's and have some historical precedent, although I wonder how many labels made it over to the wool lining modification originally.
My issue with a B-3, is that, IMHO, I think a short fleece B-3 would remove the very essence of what a B-3 is. At the end if the day this is a personal opinion but it is mine. If Shawn produces one, and I'm sure he would do a good job, but to my eye it will be a mall type bomber jacket akin to those in the leather shop in my local Milton Keynes shopping centre.
What I was trying to say about Shawn / Five Star producing these is that Shawn APPEARS to be a maker with little direct or knowledge of these items and relies on our and other input. In my opinion, we should help him do this accurately, if we are going to help him, and not mislead. The forum must retain its historical clarity, or it becomes just another leather jacket forum looking for a bargain and pointless to me personally. That is just my opinion though and of course everyone else has their own and can do what they wish.
John Lever
Moderator
Yes. Buy a B3 that is a real B3 in all specs. For a lighter jacket with shorter fleece buy a D1, or B6.
Micawber
Well-Known Member
Ok I was being a bit mischievous mindful of Burt's recent thought provoking post that touched on keeping all this stuff in perspective.
But yes I feel it's in the same ballpark as I would trim down a thick fleece without batting an eyelid BUT I have the gear and experience to do it. I certainly wouldn't be taking my mum's old kitchen scissors (she's dead anyway) or my personal shaver and giving one a haircut without knowing what I was doing.
Pax
Joy and happiness to all.
But yes I feel it's in the same ballpark as I would trim down a thick fleece without batting an eyelid BUT I have the gear and experience to do it. I certainly wouldn't be taking my mum's old kitchen scissors (she's dead anyway) or my personal shaver and giving one a haircut without knowing what I was doing.
Pax
Joy and happiness to all.
ties70
Well-Known Member
No, I think it was a shaved and trimmed collar...
mulceber
Moderator
ties70
Well-Known Member
Yeah, especially if Shawn could have made him a thinner fleeced sheepskin B-3 with a D-1 collar.....
Sorry, I couldn't resist
Ties
ausreenactor
Well-Known Member
Found a picture tonight, from 2008, wearing a BR Rough Wear B-10 around Kandahar!
stanier
Well-Known Member
I know what you mean mulceber, but that can't be a reason to mess about with the B-3 design and justify it here.
It's like living somewhere an A-2 isn't practical, either too hot or too cold, so (without wishing to sound like a grump patch from Goldilocks) can you make me one out of lace at one extreme, or a shearling A-2 at the other? Sorry but I don't buy it and it doesn't belong here, or maybe I don't. Really this "Shawn makes anything that looks like something" is hacking me off now. What people buy is up to them, but given the journey this forum has been on over the years searching out and scrutinising the tiniest detail and perfection of repro originality and now we seem on a route to bargain cheap customisation is beyond me.
ties70
Well-Known Member
Wow, you actually DO believe I would order a B-3 with a D-1 collar...? This is getting strange... I seem to use a lot of words, but obviously can't get any message through.
I think I am heading out of this thread...
Ties
stanier
Well-Known Member
Err, no, whether you get a B-3 with a D-1 collar is of no relevance to me at all, and though I read it hadn't sunk into reasoned consciousness. Clearly this thread has run into the buffers of incredulity for me and is now trying to chew out a whole new path of bizarre that was sneaking past me. Bye and enjoy.
Micawber
Well-Known Member
Some groovy thoughts here...
Tonight, I am thinking of getting a B-3 made that looks appears totally accurate on the outside yet has no fleece at all inside ...but rather it would be lined entirely in the very finest scarlet silk. Truly it will be a most versatile, practical and aesthetic option.
Anyone want to try some of my special magic mushrooms, they are hand picked you know....
.....anyone?
Tonight, I am thinking of getting a B-3 made that looks appears totally accurate on the outside yet has no fleece at all inside ...but rather it would be lined entirely in the very finest scarlet silk. Truly it will be a most versatile, practical and aesthetic option.
Anyone want to try some of my special magic mushrooms, they are hand picked you know....
.....anyone?
