FIVESTAR LEATHER B3 JACKETS

[mulceber]

Yeah, I was kind of thinking the same thing. If you don't want to put up with the thickness of a B-3, go for a B-6 or D-1. To each his own, I guess.

 

[bn1966]

Totally get what you are saying Gents and wouldn’t want Shawn to compromise his reputation and products. Ended up with a D-1 because my BOB ELC Irvin type wasn’t getting enough wear here in the UK due to recent mild Fall / Winter temps in Southern England. Out with the BOB (eBay) in with the D-1 & the thinner shearling...much more useable.

My problem is I’ve always had the hots for a B-3 (love the esthetic) and Shawn’s has re-lit that fire unfortunately. Couldn’t justify the spend on an ELC 50 cal version a couple of years back for the use it would get over here but am smitten still.

I can justify a Five Star version at the current price point and would like maximum opportunity for wearing one..trying to think of ways to extend the period. Thinner fleece (as long as it wouldn’t totally lose the ‘essence’ of being a B-3) or numbers that work with just a t shirt underneath.

Talking of 3’s, purchased a Masland N-3A, and boiled stationery on our coldest Fall day, moved that one on pronto..

 

[Smithy]

I'm amazed that anyone outside of the kind of winter temperatures my kind of climate can actually wear Irvins and B-3s at all. In Melbourne I wore my Irvin a few times but to be honest it was on the coldest nights sitting outside stationary in the garden having a dram. They're designed for very cold temperatures and wearing them in anything more and especially moving around in them in warmer climes must be unbearable.

But they're also some of the "coolest" looking flying jackets with the historic cachet to boot ("Oh it's got cachet baby, it's got cachet up the yin-yang!" - sorry had to slip that in, extra point for recognising the reference ;-) ) so I can see why guys in those slightly less Arctic climes might hanker after one of them in a less hefty fleece.

But I can also see it from Chris' perspective - maybe it's best to get Shawn focused on nailing the intricacies of the real deals first so he's got those down pat before branching off into slightly more heathen interpretations.

Personally I don't see a problem with 5 Star offering different fleece in a B-3 but I'd rather see Shawn have the proper B-3 in the proper weight with the proper details all sorted first.

Saying that if I wanted a less heavy duty sheepskin flying jacket I'd get a B-6 or a D-1 rather than getting something which to me would feel like a Frankenstein jacket. But that's just me.

 

[ties70]

With the greatest of respect, what's the point? Shawn spends months building prototypes and ironing out all the imperfections based on our feedback, and then we ask him to make a mall'esque bomber jacket with a built in flaw? If a lighter jacket is required just get a D-1 or B-6, surely? It's these sorts of things that diminish Shawn from the other repro makers, imho of course, and start the move away from quality repros. Just saying and airing a different view. A few years ago we were pawing over the tiniest perfect detail of each new Goodwear jacket. Now we seem to have something else going on.

@stanier ,

The point is - and there I could have been more precise - that such a jacket could be a much more wearable jacket for me.
I have an Aero B-3 that I really love, but let's be honest: It is a horror jacket to drive in the cramped space of my Fiat 500, not to mention that I don't drive with open windows in the winter... As nice as it is, when you are not at 20,000 feet, freezing off your balls on a B-24 trip to Wilhelmshaven, a B-3 is a pretty obsolete piece of garment for modern times. The more so with an office job... @Micawber on his horse farm or driving his jeep is probably the only one around here who could put a B-3 to an adequate use. Even @Smithy with his arctic Norwegian temperatures would not find a proper use for this jacket: Warm at the shoulder but ice cold kidneys...? Naah...

So, for me and as a cool looking jacket I would consider a thinner B-3 for the look and the strong historical DNA this jacket could nevertheless ooze.

I do not think that a thinner sheepskin, but nevertheless correct details and patterns, would turn Shawn's product automatically into a "mall jacket". To be frank, this argument is something that kind of diminishes Shawn’s work, just as if you are saying that every aspect of customization is already a "devaluation" of historical values and craftsmanship.

Why don't I just get a B-6 or a D-1? Well, actually I might get a D-1 some day, and specifically for the above-mentioned reason of usability, moveabilty and comfort.... Nevertheless, I like the original look of the B-3.... And, as a modern day, 50 year old, slightly overweight office-warrior, I value my personal comfort much higher than 100 percent authenticity these days..

Good night from Hamburg,

Ties

 

[bn1966]

I have no scruples (Anymore) and am a complete heathen to boot. Looks like Shawn is getting the B-3 nailed down quickly (and my wallet twitchy).
I need ‘cachet baby’ and would happily sell my soul to Frankenstein to get it as long as it looks like a B-3 at a distance & I don’t feel like I’m in a sauna

 

[mulceber]

The more so with an office job... @Micawber on his horse farm or driving his jeep is probably the only one around here who could put a B-3 to an adequate use.

Nah, I live in Michigan. I totally get good use out of my B-3 in winter.

...but I otherwise see your point, and why you might want a more warm-weather B-3.

 

[Smithy]

@stanier ,
Even @Smithy with his arctic Norwegian temperatures would not find a proper use for this jacket: Warm at the shoulder but ice cold kidneys...? Naah...

Ties makes a good point, Irvins and B-3s were designed to be worn in aircraft and sitting down hence the short length. If you're wandering around in sub zero temperatures and especially with wind you need a proper RN length submariner jumper otherwise you'll get a urinary tract infection or frozen kidneys.

I wear my Irvin a lot here over the colder months but if it's really blowing a gale I wear a parka - it's just so much more practical.

 

[bn1966]

I did see someone making ‘light-weight’ Irvins a while back (down here in Southern ENGLAND), still too thick for driving my Fiat 595. Don’t wear my D-1 in it (or rather wouldn’t unless the heater failed). Tried riding in the Winter once wearing my BOB Irvin type (armour underneath), turned around and went back home to change: a) too hot & b) collar prevented decent ‘lifesaver’ observations.

Wonder whether there has been much difference in service shearling thickness in different contracts, remember being told to buy one repro in a particular contract because the fleece wasn’t as thick as in another.

 

[bn1966]

Purchased the RAF jumper / sweater to go under my BOB Jacket...only wore them together the once...never again. Too much under the D-1 too.

 

[stanier]

@stanier ,

The point is - and there I could have been more precise - that such a jacket could be a much more wearable jacket for me.
I have an Aero B-3 that I really love, but let's be honest: It is a horror jacket to drive in the cramped space of my Fiat 500, not to mention that I don't drive with open windows in the winter... As nice as it is, when you are not at 20,000 feet, freezing off your balls on a B-24 trip to Wilhelmshaven, a B-3 is a pretty obsolete piece of garment for modern times. The more so with an office job... @Micawber on his horse farm or driving his jeep is probably the only one around here who could put a B-3 to an adequate use. Even @Smithy with his arctic Norwegian temperatures would not find a proper use for this jacket: Warm at the shoulder but ice cold kidneys...? Naah...

So, for me and as a cool looking jacket I would consider a thinner B-3 for the look and the strong historical DNA this jacket could nevertheless ooze.

I do not think that a thinner sheepskin, but nevertheless correct details and patterns, would turn Shawn's product automatically into a "mall jacket". To be frank, this argument is something that kind of diminishes Shawn’s work, just as if you are saying that every aspect of customization is already a "devaluation" of historical values and craftsmanship.

Why don't I just get a B-6 or a D-1? Well, actually I might get a D-1 some day, and specifically for the above-mentioned reason of usability, moveabilty and comfort.... Nevertheless, I like the original look of the B-3.... And, as a modern day, 50 year old, slightly overweight office-warrior, I value my personal comfort much higher than 100 percent authenticity these days..

Good night from Hamburg,

Ties

If you're happy, its your money and your choice. Enjoy in good health.

But I shared an opinion I stand by. Jackets with traits of original flying jackets to one degree or another can be found in malls and high end fashion stores across the globe, and we've all seen them over the years posted from time to time on this forum, and with subsequent varying incredulity. Just because this is "only" a shortening of the fleece makes it no less or more than many of those, and it isn't a B-3 anymore, though I stress imho of course.

 

[Smithy]

'collar prevented decent ‘lifesaver’ observations.

I know of two squadron leaders of fighter squadrons in the Battle of France who forbade their members from wearing Irvins in combat due to the difficulty they made with the collar (even down) for looking obliquely behind.

Interestingly enough it wasn't long before they became the sole preserve of the Bomber Boys although the public idea of the stereotypical RAF fighter pilot is kitted out in Irvin jacket. Interestingly enough they were reissued in bulk to fighter squadrons of the 2TAF on the Continent during the harsh winter of 1944/45 but purely for use on the ground and to be worn with BD.

 

[Smithy]

Purchased the RAF jumper / sweater to go under my BOB Jacket

It's a very good combo here which I'll use when it's -5 and below without too much wind. I can't imagine anyone wearing such in anything warmer, you'd bloody poach yourself!

 

[bn1966]

I know of two squadron leaders of fighter squadrons in the Battle of France who forbade their members from wearing Irvins in combat due to the difficulty they made with the collar (even down) for looking obliquely behind.

Interestingly enough it wasn't long before they became the sole preserve of the Bomber Boys although the public idea of the stereotypical RAF fighter pilot is kitted out in Irvin jacket. Interestingly enough they were reissued in bulk to fighter squadrons of the 2TAF on the Continent during the harsh winter of 1944/45 but purely for use on the ground and to be worn with BD.

The D-1 could have made an excellent ‘fighter’ pilot jacket then (wonder if some did), can do OK ‘lifesavers with it on.

 

[MikeyB-17]

I don’t see the problem. Other companies have produced variations on original designs-Aero have done it in the past (leather B-10’s?) and have been known to produce variations on designs at customer’s’ request, and as for the Japanese! They don’t mind playing fast and loose with historical accuracy. If that’s what the customer wants, and Shawn is able to oblige, why not? Was it At the Front who produced an Irvin in a thinner fleece? And as I recall, it was pretty popular with those who didn’t want the heavier shearling. I don’t see why giving people what they want somehow makes Five Star any less of a company.

 

[Smithy]

The D-1 could have made an excellent ‘fighter’ pilot jacket then (wonder if some did), can do OK ‘lifesavers with it on.

By that stage I imagine the B-10s and even Tanker jackets were the preferred fighter pilot jackets for obvious reasons.

The 4th FG is one of my main interests and it is fascinating how quickly and in what numbers members ditched their A-2s for B-10s when they could.

Sometimes I think we forget a cardinal rule here, if you had to fly and fight in it, it's not about how good it looks but how comfortable it was and how easy it was to wear to do your job during combat operations.

If I was flying in WWII and had to pick a jacket to do it in from those designs I have, it'd be the B-10, one of the most practical, comfortable, easy to wear and warmish (without boiling yourself) WWII jackets there are (IMHO)

 

[stanier]

Ties makes a good point, Irvins and B-3s were designed to be worn in aircraft and sitting down hence the short length. If you're wandering around in sub zero temperatures and especially with wind you need a proper RN length submariner jumper otherwise you'll get a urinary tract infection or frozen kidneys.

I wear my Irvin a lot here over the colder months but if it's really blowing a gale I wear a parka - it's just so much more practical.

Totally understand Smithy. But my original point had nothing to do with the practicality of a B-3 (though I've always found them extremely warm in Bedfordshire, England, even on the coldest days but that isn't going to be as cold as where you are!)

It's also clearly totally up to each if us all how we spend our money, and I have no issue with that. My point was about the integrity of the B-3 design. We gave Ken some stick with Aero's goofed up overly long cuff fleece a couple of years or so ago and I'm questioning the value of a B-3 made D-1 length because at that point it isn't a B-3 anymore as most who know what a B-3 is, would recognise one.

I'm sure Shawn will make one and we'll see it here and it will be a lovely jacket and it will have its fans. But it still won't be a B-3 and if it was made by Paul Smith or Barbour or many others we'd have it down as another wanna be mall jacket and perhaps joke about a B-3 with alopecia. Not meant to offend Ties or swim against the tide, but my opinion.

 

[Smithy]

Totally understand Smithy. But my original point had nothing to do with the practicality of a B-3 (though I've always found them extremely warm in Bedfordshire, England, even on the coldest days but that isn't going to be as cold as where you are!)

It's also clearly totally up to each if us all how we spend our money, and I have no issue with that. My point was about the integrity of the B-3 design. We gave Ken some stick with Aero's goofed up overly long cuff fleece a couple of years or so ago and I'm questioning the value of a B-3 made D-1 length because at that point it isn't a B-3 anymore as most who know what a B-3 is, would recognise one.

I'm sure Shawn will make one and we'll see it here and it will be a lovely jacket and it will have its fans. But it still won't be a B-3 and if it was made by Paul Smith or Barbour or many others we'd have it down as another wanna be mall jacket and perhaps joke about a B-3 with alopecia. Not meant to offend Ties or swim against the tide, but my opinion.

Chris you might be confusing my comments with Mikey's?

I actually said above that I wouldn't want a B-3 in a lighter fleece as it would feel like a Frankenstein jacket to me, I'd get a D-1 or B-6 if I wanted a thinner fleeced jacket.

But at the same time I'm not adverse to Shawn and 5 Star making them, I'd just like to see them get the "original" jackets down pat first.

 

[bn1966]

Can see a point but Ultimately not an issue if Shawn is happy to oblige us that might want a lighter weight shearling in the style of a B-3. I have never been one for accuracy over function. Would rather own something that spends more time on my back than in the wardrobe. The opportunity to own something that akin to a B-3 is one I’d welcome...pray for a cold Fall.
Again..each to their own

 

[mulceber]

Yeah, I’m in your camp, Tim. If I order a B-3, I want the real deal, myself. But then, I’m not in a climate where I can only justify wearing it 2-3 days a year. If anything, this past winter I found myself excited whenever it was warm enough that I could get away with an A-2.

 

[Smithy]

Yeah, I’m in your camp, Tim. If I order a B-3, I want the real deal, myself. But then, I’m not in a climate where I can only justify wearing it 2-3 days a year. If anything, this past winter I found myself excited whenever it was warm enough that I could get away with an A-2.

It's been warm here over the last few days but the temperature dropped this evening and as I post this I'm wearing an ATF B-10