Eastman / Aero price gouging on overseas sales

[SuinBruin]

It's really more a case of playing a topic out I think. TFL knew this was going on a while, and let it go. But it's painfully obvious that there is no conclusion to be reached on the topic. Once everyone has their say - 8-10x, there's really not much more to add other than arguing. Now that the data is out there, people can choose what to do with their dollars. At some point it has to die, and really, I see no new information being posted - just arguments on one side or the other...
It's been fun. But I have some jackets to sell.

Let it burn itself out. Locking it down means it can never be bumped to the top again; it limits the thread's shelf life and relevancy. But I think they know that already.

 

[Persimmon]

And Paddy has shut down the hat place thread, with a post chock full of gratitude to Aero for deigning to respond to the criticisms made. :roll:

It's good to be reminded why I never bothered signing up with the FL in the first place. I appreciate the much lighter moderation touch here, letting people politely explore and debate the topic.

Now that is very disappointing to hear that Paddy has closed that channel of discussion.
A forum is about discussion and whilst it might appear to have reached a conclusion that is not always the case to other Forum members.

It should "die" naturally and not at a whim of a moderator
Aero obviously have friends !!
Thankfully free speech seems to have more of a voice in this Forum.

 

[ButteMT61]

Aero obviously have friends !!
Thankfully free speech seems to have more of a voice in this Forum.

Everybody does. I'd reckon there are a lot of decisions made on both fora that involve some of that. OTOH, I've seen TFL (and others) re-open a thread is someone contacts the Mod's and asks for it to re-open based on logic, data, and a kind tone. It happened with the Aero USA thread. Give it a try if you guys want it open.

 

[bfrench]

Aero obviously have friends !!
Thankfully free speech seems to have more of a voice in this Forum.

Everybody does. I'd reckon there are a lot of decisions made on both fora that involve some of that. OTOH, I've seen TFL (and others) re-open a thread is someone contacts the Mod's and asks for it to re-open based on logic, data, and a kind tone. It happened with the Aero USA thread. Give it a try if you guys want it open.

It's already done - I contacted Paddy by PM and respectively asked the he re-open the thread as it is educational to both sides as long as it doesn't degrade into emotional personal attacks - and I don't see that happening with the calibre of posters we have here.

 

[unclegrumpy]

In Canada, when our national Federal Sales Tax was removed and a Goods and Services Tax was levied the whole point of it was to make it transparent so the end user who bought the product knew exactly how much tax was being paid. It is exactly the opposite of the VAT which is supposedly hidden so as not to confuse and horrify the EU buyer - looks as if their governments seem to think these people are so sensitive that they can't stand the truth.

But then again it could be a government smoke and mirrors thing to keep the populace fooled.

When I'm purchasing a commodity I just want the production cost and profit to reflect the price - I can figure out how much I'm being charged for tax. I want to see exactly how much I'm giving to Big Brother for the privilege of spending my after tax dollars.

Nicely said! This issue is all about transparency, fairness, and monitoring Big Brother so he does not feel free to take more than his fair share.

 

[m444uk]

In Canada, when our national Federal Sales Tax was removed and a Goods and Services Tax was levied the whole point of it was to make it transparent so the end user who bought the product knew exactly how much tax was being paid. It is exactly the opposite of the VAT which is supposedly hidden so as not to confuse and horrify the EU buyer - looks as if their governments seem to think these people are so sensitive that they can't stand the truth.

But then again it could be a government smoke and mirrors thing to keep the populace fooled.

When I'm purchasing a commodity I just want the production cost and profit to reflect the price - I can figure out how much I'm being charged for tax. I want to see exactly how much I'm giving to Big Brother for the privilege of spending my after tax dollars.

It's not hidden, the vat content is shown on the invoice. I did my quarterly vat return yesterday and all 180 invoices and till receipts showed it. These ranged from a roll of sellotape to a £600 laptop !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If I had one that didn't have it even a schoolboy knows how to work out 20% on an inclusive invoice.
If there is no VAT number on the invoice then no VAT has been charged.

 

[John Lever]

Ok,. here's your next target-
Please explain why we pay $815 for an i phone in the UK when it is only $545 in the USA ?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Apple-iPhone-4S ... 641&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Apple-iPhone-4S-1 ... =iphone+4s

 

[m444uk]

John did you get a test quote from Interparcel STANDARD (2-4 day to the US) ?
The 3kg price you posted was uber expensive priority 1-2 days to US.

 

[Persimmon]

Ok,. here's your next target-
Please explain why we pay $815 for an i phone in the UK when it is only $545 in the USA ?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Apple-iPhone-4S ... 641&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Apple-iPhone-4S-1 ... =iphone+4s

John,
Its called "Rip off Britain" and yes we get hurt on Jeans, Chino's , PC's, (everything ....) etc etc

But two wrongs do not make a right

 

[Persimmon]

Aero obviously have friends !!
Thankfully free speech seems to have more of a voice in this Forum.

Everybody does. I'd reckon there are a lot of decisions made on both fora that involve some of that. OTOH, I've seen TFL (and others) re-open a thread is someone contacts the Mod's and asks for it to re-open based on logic, data, and a kind tone. It happened with the Aero USA thread. Give it a try if you guys want it open.

It's already done - I contacted Paddy by PM and respectively asked the he re-open the thread as it is educational to both sides as long as it doesn't degrade into emotional personal attacks - and I don't see that happening with the calibre of posters we have here.

I have PM'd Paddy on the Hat Forum to request he reconsider.
What can appear to be a very well thread with lots of postings can be false.
Folks tune in every so often and many on Fedora may not as yet seen/read anything about this and they will find they have no voice through a modearor's whim.
Threads die on their own. Certainly not this way !!!

 

[SuinBruin]

Ok,. here's your next target-
Please explain why we pay $815 for an i phone in the UK when it is only $545 in the USA ?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Apple-iPhone-4S ... 641&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Apple-iPhone-4S-1 ... =iphone+4s

Differential pricing is a completely different issue. There are many factors that go into pricing an item in a particular market, including exchange rate, cost of doing business/overhead, costs to import, taxation, etc.

Phones are particularly tricky, since in the US much of the cost is related to the mobile contract you have to sign. I don't know how that works in the UK, but for an Apple-to-Apple comparison ( :mrgreen: ) let's compare the iPad.

Basic iPad cost in the UK: 399 pounds with VAT, 332.50 VAT free
Basic iPad cost in the US: $499, not including tax

Today, 332.50 GBP = 522 USD. So UK purchasers are paying $22 more retail for an iPad, an "upcharge" of, what, 4%? This can easily change within a few days or a week depending on the exchange rate, so it's conceivable that a UK buyer could wind up paying less for an iPad than a US buyer.

http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/s ... amily/ipad
http://store.apple.com/us/buy/home/shop ... d/new_ipad

 

[unclegrumpy]

Ok,. here's your next target-
Please explain why we pay $815 for an i phone in the UK when it is only $545 in the USA ?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Apple-iPhone-4S ... 641&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Apple-iPhone-4S-1 ... =iphone+4s

You guys may well be getting ripped off on these, but one reason for the cheaper price is that phone is a locked AT&T model. It will only work on the AT&T network. AT&T is subsidizing the price to get someones business, and to get them to sign a longterm contract.

This will not make you feel any better, but I got my wife one of these new iPhones for $200....actually $300 total after an upgrade to the 32GB model. That was with a two year Verizon contract. I wonder if you could just get an American phone plan and work around this?

 

[m444uk]

Differential pricing is a completely different issue. There are many factors that go into pricing an item in a particular market, including exchange rate, cost of doing business/overhead, costs to import, taxation, etc

No, it's exactly what Aero are doing and for some of the reasons you then list !

 

[m444uk]

Ok,. here's your next target-
Please explain why we pay $815 for an i phone in the UK when it is only $545 in the USA ?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Apple-iPhone-4S ... 641&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Apple-iPhone-4S-1 ... =iphone+4s

But Sir Ives says Apple aren't interested in money !

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/a ... money.html

 

[Rutger]

If there is no VAT number on the invoice then no VAT has been charged.

Question : So ELC and Aero can sell jackets without charging the VAT at their own discretion to whomever they like?
Is that if they stay below a certain turnover they are not obliged to charge VAT?
In which cases would ELC/Aero not have to charge VAT if selling in the UK?

Whenever I go to a shop I'm 100% sure that I will have paid VAT when I've bought something, even if in the tiniest shop.

 

[Jeff M]

I asked this earlier..haven't seen any reply yet.

Does one of our UK members have a receipt from an Aero or ELC purchase?
If so, does it show a VAT charge?

When you purchase an item/service in the US, your receipt shows what you paid in sales tax.
Advertised prices are the base price...with the tax added on when your sale is rung up/charged.
This not the case in the UK?

 

[SuinBruin]

Differential pricing is a completely different issue. There are many factors that go into pricing an item in a particular market, including exchange rate, cost of doing business/overhead, costs to import, taxation, etc

No, it's exactly what Aero are doing and for some of the reasons you then list !

C'mon, really?

Here's the nub, and why "differential pricing" is not the issue.

Aero and ELC charge one retail price in the UK and a different retail price abroad and conceal the difference under the cover of VAT.

Anybody in the EU can compare prices for Levi's, Apple, Nikon, Sony, etc. on the internet and see who is paying what where. How does an American consumer who knows nothing about VAT tell that he or she is paying 20% more for an Aero or ELC jacket than a buyer in Britain, or France, or Germany? The VAT element is being used to conceal the true retail price. That's not "differential pricing," that's just dishonest.

Moreover, because Aero and ELC do not have retail or wholesale presence outside of the UK (unlike, say, Apple) and are not engaging in mass exportation, they aren't subject to additional overhead, or import costs, or exchange rate costs, or taxation, which might account for "differential pricing." They've just found a way to conceal an extra 20% in their overseas sales and they've taken advantage.

 

[m444uk]

If there is no VAT number on the invoice then no VAT has been charged.

Question : So ELC and Aero can sell jackets without charging the VAT at their own discretion to whomever they like?
Is that if they stay below a certain turnover they are not obliged to charge VAT?
In which cases would ELC/Aero not have to charge VAT if selling in the UK?

Whenever I go to a shop I'm 100% sure that I will have paid VAT when I've bought something, even if in the tiniest shop.

Both ELC and AERO are registered for VAT. That means they MUST charge it on all new and used UK/EU sales.
They are legally obliged to be registered because their turnover is over circa £75000.
Even if was bellow that it would still be in their interest to be registered so they can claim back all of their high material input cost VAT.

Small shops normally pay VAT on turnover rather than itemized sales. Many things don't have VAT applied EG. children's clothing, magazines, books, most food, prescription drugs etc. The till receipt for a box of matches is unlikely to mention VAT !

 

[m444uk]

I asked this earlier..haven't seen any reply yet.

Does one of our UK members have a receipt from an Aero or ELC purchase?
If so, does it show a VAT charge?

When you purchase an item/service in the US, your receipt shows what you paid in sales tax.
Advertised prices are the base price...with the tax added on when your sale is rung up/charged.
This not the case in the UK?

Jeeze, your not paying attention ! Otter posted the figures on his UK receipt.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12850&start=80

 

[John Lever]

I am still curious to know what is the motive in attacking two small family run businesses that offer superb products. Yes I know you are cross because of the concealed VAT, but beyond that, what is the reason ?