Lebensgefahr
Active Member
dujardin said:
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Some pictures of the Irvin jackets in my RAF collection
- Thread starter Lebensgefahr
- Start date
Lebensgefahr
Active Member
Roughwear said:I'm looking forward to the time when your pirvate museum opens.
You never know,maybe one day.I don`t live a million miles away from you but if i carry on posting pictures at the rate i`m going there won`t be much left to see anyway
LG
philip.ed
Active Member
Lebensgefahr said:philip.ed said:
The goggles didn`t come with the helmet i`m afraid and you are correct in thinking they are IVB`s.I`m particularly interested in the crossover period from the B helmet to the C helmet when you see D masks with C helmets and E masks with B helmets and a mixture of 32 pattern Mae West`s and flap type Mae West`s etc.I have a cracking photo of a Stirling crew wearing just such a mixture of clothing.I have a fair few photos of this sort of practice as i spent some time going through the entire IWM RAF photo collection
I have attached a photo of another C helmet setup with a D mask but with a different stud arrangement.This particular mask is pictured in one of Mick Prodgers books looking much the worse for wear but it has since been restored and although the condition is not great this is the only example of this type i have ever handled and it comes with history(the mask only).The goggles shown are short loop Mk IVB`s.
LG
You have such an amazing collection! I certainly do recognise that mask/helmet combination. It's a very interesting mask. I saw a similar one on eBay a while back, but instead of having the presser-stud on the inside it was on the outside, and made to fit to an early d-type helmet. From memory, was it part of Graham Potts' collection? I heard that he sold up, but he certainly had a fantastic collection, too, from what I have seen and heard. There was a book produced on RAF clothing which had a lot of his collection in it, but I've never been able to find a copy. Do you know of it, LG?
I agree on the interesting cross-over period; there certainly were loads of interesting combinations. I think the story of the E-mask and 90(?) squadron is a classic case.
Thanks!
Lebensgefahr
Active Member
I saw a similar one on eBay a while back, but instead of having the presser-stud on the inside it was on the outside, and made to fit to an early d-type helmet. From memory, was it part of Graham Potts' collection? I heard that he sold up, but he certainly had a fantastic collection, too, from what I have seen and heard. There was a book produced on RAF clothing which had a lot of his collection in it, but I've never been able to find a copy. Do you know of it, LG?
I agree on the interesting cross-over period; there certainly were loads of interesting combinations.
I have not seen a D mask with the studs on the outside,that would be a nice one to have.Graham Potts had an excellent collection from what i`ve heard but he sold it all years ago.The two books mentioned in the above post would be the ones you are talking about(Jim Weld`s and Kevin King`s)i imagine but you have to be careful as Weld`s book is littered with mistakes and there are a fair few in King`s book as well.I believe some of Graham Pott`s gear is in King`s book but i can`t remember and i don`t have the books to hand.
I have posted two more pics but i had better stop after that as i imagine people must be getting fed up with them.
The first is a dual purpose Harnessuit with the rare seat type parachute pack.He has 40 pattern chemical gloves in the pocket of his 30 pattern Sidcot and he carries a navigators bag.He also wears a frock white pullover.
As a small point of interest the grip and column in the background is from a Boulton Paul Defiant.
His headgear is a B type helmet with the early plain metal modifiers with the fitting instructions stamped into them,Mk IVa bakelite goggles and a D mask with 35 pattern mike.
Hope you like them.
LG
I agree on the interesting cross-over period; there certainly were loads of interesting combinations.
I have not seen a D mask with the studs on the outside,that would be a nice one to have.Graham Potts had an excellent collection from what i`ve heard but he sold it all years ago.The two books mentioned in the above post would be the ones you are talking about(Jim Weld`s and Kevin King`s)i imagine but you have to be careful as Weld`s book is littered with mistakes and there are a fair few in King`s book as well.I believe some of Graham Pott`s gear is in King`s book but i can`t remember and i don`t have the books to hand.
I have posted two more pics but i had better stop after that as i imagine people must be getting fed up with them.
The first is a dual purpose Harnessuit with the rare seat type parachute pack.He has 40 pattern chemical gloves in the pocket of his 30 pattern Sidcot and he carries a navigators bag.He also wears a frock white pullover.
As a small point of interest the grip and column in the background is from a Boulton Paul Defiant.
His headgear is a B type helmet with the early plain metal modifiers with the fitting instructions stamped into them,Mk IVa bakelite goggles and a D mask with 35 pattern mike.
Hope you like them.
LG
philip.ed
Active Member
Very interesting, I've never seen a pair of Mark IVa goggles for sale, nor a b-type with the early modifiers and nor a harnessuit complete with the harness and parachute. These items are as rare as hens milk-teeth now.
Fantastic shots!
And thanks LG and ghq1; the King, Kevin / Humphrey, Dave; Flight Equipment of the R.A.F. 1920-1945 (Acme Publishing) was the book I was talking about. It's apparently quite scarce now. I have scans from the Weld book, and as you say, there are a lot of errors in it.
Cheers for posting
Fantastic shots!
And thanks LG and ghq1; the King, Kevin / Humphrey, Dave; Flight Equipment of the R.A.F. 1920-1945 (Acme Publishing) was the book I was talking about. It's apparently quite scarce now. I have scans from the Weld book, and as you say, there are a lot of errors in it.
Cheers for posting
Lebensgefahr
Active Member
philip.ed said:Very interesting, I've never seen a pair of Mark IVa goggles for sale, nor a b-type with the early modifiers and nor a harnessuit complete with the harness and parachute. These items are as rare as hens milk-teeth now.
Fantastic shots!
I have to say that the items you mention have always been rare,there has never been a time when any of these items have been easy to get.it`s just a question of being in the right place at the right time when they do turn up.
I have to be honest and own up to the fact that there is no harness in the suit.It is complete with the clips and i have a piece of webbing made for the anchor clip so that it looks like there is a harness in place but i only know of one harness in existence.As for the pack,there certainly aren`t many of those about.
The helmet with the modifiers is pretty rare but there is an earlier one where the modifiers are sewn on.I saw it at Hendon once but didn`t have my camera with me and the next time i went the mannequin had gone.
The Mk IVa goggles are probably one of the rarest along with the Mk Vb`s but there is one pair that`s even rarer than that,any idea what they might be?
I`ll give you a clue,they make Mk VI`s look cool.
LG
philip.ed
Active Member
I actually have no idea what pair you're on about... (without checking any reference books)
they must be pretty ugly, because the VI series look horrible!
Regarding the items I mentioned, it's largely a question of money as well. If I won the lottery, I could probably phone Dave Farnsworth and any other notable dealers I know and purchase a job lot of items to fit into my collection which are rare or missing. Many RAF items have sky-rocketed in price, and ATM I think the market is quite stagnant. I haven't bought an item for about a year, and in that time have only seen a few items which capture my interest.
The harness is extremely rare; I know of one other as well (Dave Farnsworth has one) and I know of someone who is making one for himself. It's an interesting arrangement, and I've often wondered why the harness is so rare. Where they ripped out and recycled?
I would love to own a pair of IVa's, along with a type-19 mic; an item that has always escaped me, even in reproduction form!
they must be pretty ugly, because the VI series look horrible!
Regarding the items I mentioned, it's largely a question of money as well. If I won the lottery, I could probably phone Dave Farnsworth and any other notable dealers I know and purchase a job lot of items to fit into my collection which are rare or missing. Many RAF items have sky-rocketed in price, and ATM I think the market is quite stagnant. I haven't bought an item for about a year, and in that time have only seen a few items which capture my interest.
The harness is extremely rare; I know of one other as well (Dave Farnsworth has one) and I know of someone who is making one for himself. It's an interesting arrangement, and I've often wondered why the harness is so rare. Where they ripped out and recycled?
I would love to own a pair of IVa's, along with a type-19 mic; an item that has always escaped me, even in reproduction form!
Lebensgefahr
Active Member
The goggles(or more accurately spectacles)in question are MK IX & IXa spectacles.While much less sought after than MK IVa`s or Vb`s they are none the less rarer but one ugly looking pair of glasses.
As you rightly say a lot of the time it boils down to money but once an item gets over a certain price a large percentage of the market drops away for one reason or another.I would have to disagree about the market stagnating though,from what i have seen it`s very bouyant with items selling very well and for record prices.One dealer i know has said he`s never had it so good since the recession started.I think aviation memorabilia is one of the few things you can buy these days that is increasing in value.
With regard to items like MK IVa`s,Parasuits and seat type Harnessuit packs etc,these type of items have never been common and i can count on one hand the amount of each of these items i have seen.It`s just a question of being in the right place at the right time and having a deep pockets to pay for them.Although people can still get lucky i think the days of picking up bargains are pretty much gone.When i see the current prices for items it makes my jaw drop,£500 for an empty Observer parachute pack recently.I paid £35 for one of mine which is 1940 dated(with the correct manufacturers stamp not one of these mickey mouse stamps added on by some chancer later on) and in almost mint condition.
Stick with it though.My mantra has always been if you wait long enough you usually get the items your`e after.
Happy collecting
LG :mrgreen:
As you rightly say a lot of the time it boils down to money but once an item gets over a certain price a large percentage of the market drops away for one reason or another.I would have to disagree about the market stagnating though,from what i have seen it`s very bouyant with items selling very well and for record prices.One dealer i know has said he`s never had it so good since the recession started.I think aviation memorabilia is one of the few things you can buy these days that is increasing in value.
With regard to items like MK IVa`s,Parasuits and seat type Harnessuit packs etc,these type of items have never been common and i can count on one hand the amount of each of these items i have seen.It`s just a question of being in the right place at the right time and having a deep pockets to pay for them.Although people can still get lucky i think the days of picking up bargains are pretty much gone.When i see the current prices for items it makes my jaw drop,£500 for an empty Observer parachute pack recently.I paid £35 for one of mine which is 1940 dated(with the correct manufacturers stamp not one of these mickey mouse stamps added on by some chancer later on) and in almost mint condition.
Stick with it though.My mantra has always been if you wait long enough you usually get the items your`e after.
Happy collecting
LG :mrgreen:
Lebensgefahr
Active Member
I have had a bit of a change around so i thought i`d post a picture.I have replaced the black prestige suit on my Defiant gunner mannequin (see previous picture) with a Sidcot suit which belonged to a Battle of Britain gunner who served with 264 Squadron.Consequently the 41 pattern mike was no longer in keeping so i have changed that for a type 19 microphone.The 36 pattern boots also belonged to a Defiant gunner but one who served with 256 Squadron (i like Defiants,i bet you`d never had guessed?)
I am planning on putting the prestige suit on another mannequin but i`ll have to buy another one first.
Hope you like the picture :?:
I have also put my flap type Mae West on my Irvin suit mannequin but i haven`t posted a picture as it`s hardly any different to the old picture but if anyone wants to see it i`ll happily post a picture.
LG :mrgreen:
I am planning on putting the prestige suit on another mannequin but i`ll have to buy another one first.
Hope you like the picture :?:
I have also put my flap type Mae West on my Irvin suit mannequin but i haven`t posted a picture as it`s hardly any different to the old picture but if anyone wants to see it i`ll happily post a picture.
LG :mrgreen:
Lebensgefahr
Active Member
Hello Andrew
Thanks.A much maligned aircraft the Defiant,probably with good reason !
I`m having a bit of a fiddle about up there at the moment,finishing off a few little jobs and taking a few photos as i change the odd thing around.
I have posted one last photo but i`d better stop there or there will be nothing left for you to see.
Clock corner !
Hope you like it.
LG
Thanks.A much maligned aircraft the Defiant,probably with good reason !
I`m having a bit of a fiddle about up there at the moment,finishing off a few little jobs and taking a few photos as i change the odd thing around.
I have posted one last photo but i`d better stop there or there will be nothing left for you to see.
Clock corner !
Hope you like it.
LG
philip.ed
Active Member
Lebensgefahr said:I have had a bit of a change around so i thought i`d post a picture.I have replaced the black prestige suit on my Defiant gunner mannequin (see previous picture) with a Sidcot suit which belonged to a Battle of Britain gunner who served with 264 Squadron.Consequently the 41 pattern mike was no longer in keeping so i have changed that for a type 19 microphone.The 36 pattern boots also belonged to a Defiant gunner but one who served with 256 Squadron (i like Defiants,i bet you`d never had guessed?)
I am planning on putting the prestige suit on another mannequin but i`ll have to buy another one first.
Hope you like the picture :?:
I have also put my flap type Mae West on my Irvin suit mannequin but i haven`t posted a picture as it`s hardly any different to the old picture but if anyone wants to see it i`ll happily post a picture.
LG :mrgreen:
This just looks awesome. My dream has always been to own a prestige suit and a parasuit. And you say you're looking for another prestige suit? They're like hens milk teeth! I've only seen two sell in the last 6 years, and both were for fairly good prices in my opinion (not reaching £300 IIRC). I think the black ones look deadly.
Seeing pictures like this really enthuses me to want to expand my collection. But the student budget says no. I haven't bought an RAF item for two years now...
Lebensgefahr
Active Member
Hello Ben
Thank you.
I didn`t explain myself very clearly,it`s another mannequin i need not another prestige suit.I really liked the look of the black prestige suit with the parasuit(i`ve seen lots of pictures of Defiant squadrons wearing black prestige suits) but i wanted to put the Sidcot suit with history with the parasuit.Also the black prestige suit has an original 25 squadron badge on the pocket which it would be nice to see so i`d like to put that on a mannequin on its own.
I have two other prestige suits,one in white with history(see previous picture)and a blue one.
While not common the white ones seem to come up every now and then but the black and blue ones are rarer still although the blue one is not as desireable(although i do have a Battle of Britain period photo which shows one in use).I bought my black one many years ago and have never seen another one for sale since.
As you rightly say the last couple of white ones that came up sold fairly cheaply.
I think the money WW2 RAF flying clothing is fetching at the moment prices all but those with the deepest pockets out of the market not just students, but i wish you luck in your search as if you buy good quality items you will have them to enjoy(or worry about)and they will only go up in price if the current trend continues.
I still get a buzz out of collecting even after all these years although it tends to be less of a strain on my wallet (and my marriage) these days.
Tally Ho !
LG
Thank you.
I didn`t explain myself very clearly,it`s another mannequin i need not another prestige suit.I really liked the look of the black prestige suit with the parasuit(i`ve seen lots of pictures of Defiant squadrons wearing black prestige suits) but i wanted to put the Sidcot suit with history with the parasuit.Also the black prestige suit has an original 25 squadron badge on the pocket which it would be nice to see so i`d like to put that on a mannequin on its own.
I have two other prestige suits,one in white with history(see previous picture)and a blue one.
While not common the white ones seem to come up every now and then but the black and blue ones are rarer still although the blue one is not as desireable(although i do have a Battle of Britain period photo which shows one in use).I bought my black one many years ago and have never seen another one for sale since.
As you rightly say the last couple of white ones that came up sold fairly cheaply.
I think the money WW2 RAF flying clothing is fetching at the moment prices all but those with the deepest pockets out of the market not just students, but i wish you luck in your search as if you buy good quality items you will have them to enjoy(or worry about)and they will only go up in price if the current trend continues.
I still get a buzz out of collecting even after all these years although it tends to be less of a strain on my wallet (and my marriage) these days.
Tally Ho !
LG
Lebensgefahr
Active Member
After picking up the couple of items i needed to complete my next mannequin at Beltring i have posted a picture of the finished article.
This one is a bit of a departure from my other mannequins which are mostly early to mid war.I have wanted to do this one for a while after seeing one like it at Hendon but i was missing the ammo boots and also i needed a set of hands to complete the mannequin.
Far East Fighter Pilot (circa 1945)
He is wearing a Beadon suit, late pattern E type Helmet, H type oxygen mask, Mk V111 spectacles and carrying Cape leather flying gloves.
In case of being shot down over the hostile jungle environment he has opted to wear ammo boots instead of flying boots and he is armed with a RAF issue service revolver and a Kukri.
At a later date i will probably change the revolver for a Mk1 Browning Hi-Power as i feel it would be more in keeping with the late war period.
This isn`t where he will normally stand but due to the sloping roof i can`t get a picture of him in the position he will normally occupy.
Hope you like it. :?:
LG
This one is a bit of a departure from my other mannequins which are mostly early to mid war.I have wanted to do this one for a while after seeing one like it at Hendon but i was missing the ammo boots and also i needed a set of hands to complete the mannequin.
Far East Fighter Pilot (circa 1945)
He is wearing a Beadon suit, late pattern E type Helmet, H type oxygen mask, Mk V111 spectacles and carrying Cape leather flying gloves.
In case of being shot down over the hostile jungle environment he has opted to wear ammo boots instead of flying boots and he is armed with a RAF issue service revolver and a Kukri.
At a later date i will probably change the revolver for a Mk1 Browning Hi-Power as i feel it would be more in keeping with the late war period.
This isn`t where he will normally stand but due to the sloping roof i can`t get a picture of him in the position he will normally occupy.
Hope you like it. :?:
LG
TankBuster
Active Member
Very nice setup! Thanks for showing!
