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Some of the 4th FG and a lot of A-2s
- Thread starter Smithy
- Start date
Smithy
Well-Known Member
Dude of the Day...
Lt Frank Speer (Allentown, PA) having just returned from a mission, fills out his report as his Crew Chief William E. Brong (centre) looks on.
(BTW Frank's books, "Wingman", "One Down, One Dead" and his history of the 4th, "Debden Eagles" are all tremendous)...
Lt Frank Speer (Allentown, PA) having just returned from a mission, fills out his report as his Crew Chief William E. Brong (centre) looks on.
(BTW Frank's books, "Wingman", "One Down, One Dead" and his history of the 4th, "Debden Eagles" are all tremendous)...
Smithy
Well-Known Member
Whilst we're about it, another great shot of Vic but an earlier one with his Jug which carried the same artwork and moniker.
Like a lot of RAF boys he picked up a penchant for using a polka dot silk scarf from his time as an Eagle in the RAF, and you can see him wearing it here.
Easily one of the "coolest" of the 4th. He was ridiculously popular with the ladies.
Like a lot of RAF boys he picked up a penchant for using a polka dot silk scarf from his time as an Eagle in the RAF, and you can see him wearing it here.
Easily one of the "coolest" of the 4th. He was ridiculously popular with the ladies.
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It always amazes me those guys flew into combat wearing ties...Once again it's been way too long since I did a "Dude of the Day", so without further ado here we go...
Lt. Gilbert "Mike" Hunt from 336 Sqn. Here he is with his crew chief, Sgt. Don Groomer. Great photo.
Smithy
Well-Known Member
In truth most of the 4th didn't if we're honest. I think this is a publicity shot where the base PR man has got him to slap on some flying kit.
It would not be the first time this was done for the press.
B-Man2
Well-Known Member
Totally agree …. What I find even more crazy are the infantry officers especially Lieutenants and Captains who had to crawl around in the mud and blood with the rest of the enlisted guys but who were also expected to wear ties . From what I’ve read Patton put out an order that all combat officers would be clean shaven and wear a tie every day .
If anyone’s ever been crawling around like that you know what a PIA that would be .
Smithy
Well-Known Member
I haven't seen an actual operational photo of a guy from the 4th before a mission or after wearing a tie Burt.
Most of the 4th guys at the start of the unit who had served as Eagles in the RAF had already picked up the habit of wearing a silk scarf and definitely not a tie.
Tie wearing during operational flying was seen in the RAF during the first year of the war but disappeared very quickly - unsurprisingly.
Flightengineer
Well-Known Member
as a man who flew most of my hrs in a tie, I believe that these guys only wore them for magazine photos and not in the cockpit of these old iron birds. It was very faааr from our modern offices
Smithy
Well-Known Member
Exactly Dmitry. It was one of the reasons that they ditched ties in the RAF very early. Trying to twist the neck constantly to search the skies with a starched collar and tie led to chaffing off the neck and inhibited the ability of a pilot to turn his head freely. Already in the Battle of France all the AASF squadrons had ditched ties completely. The standard was to use a silk scarf tied like a cravat and stuffed inside the shirt collar. I know of at least four pilots who during the Battle of France and Britain used stockings that they'd got from girlfriends or "ladies of the night".
Smithy
Well-Known Member
I just went back to the first page of this thread which I started nearly 5 years ago now (man time flies!) and noticed that the very first photo I started this thread was missing as I'd binned it from my Imgur account, so for today's "Dude(s) of the Day" I' thought it'd be great to post that first photo again of a bunch of guys from 336 Sqn.
Look at the soft drape of that leather, no cardboard, stiff edged stuff there ;-)
I bloody love this photo, it's one of the best.
Look at the soft drape of that leather, no cardboard, stiff edged stuff there ;-)
I bloody love this photo, it's one of the best.
Pa12
Well-Known Member
Do you reckon the hides were thinner? Or just something in the tanning process?I just went back to the first page of this thread which I started nearly 5 years ago now (man time flies!) and noticed that the very first photo I started this thread was missing as I'd binned it from my Imgur account, so for today's "Dude(s) of the Day" I' thought it'd be great to post that first photo again of a bunch of guys from 336 Sqn.
Look at the soft drape of that leather, no cardboard, stiff edged stuff there ;-)
I bloody love this photo, it's one of the best.
Smithy
Well-Known Member
We've talked about this on here before.
Originals were chrome tanned not veg tanned. Most high end modern repros are veg tanned. The problem is that veg tanned, whilst looking nice, often has an entirely different drape from originals because it's stiffer. Those originals back in the day would have been very soft and pliable. Leather stiffens with age so you can't base the drape on what an original is like now, 80 years of ageing and the leather has stiffened.
I've talked about this before and I think it's a majorly overlooked facet of repros. Drape is just as important as the look of the leather. That's what looks off with some high end repros, the leather looks great but it looks like it's made out of newspaper in how it behaves when worn.
I've got a photo of freshly issued A-2s back during the war which I'll post when I dig it out to show that the originals didn't need breaking in, the leather was already very soft.
Smithy
Well-Known Member
Here you go, newish issued A-2s with a flight class photo.
Most repros show nowhere that level of creasing and drape after years and years of use.
Pa12
Well-Known Member
Definitely drape differentlyHere you go, newish issued A-2s with a flight class photo.
Most repros show nowhere that level of creasing and drape after years and years of use.
