Simply not true ELC propaganda

[P-47 thunderbolt]

His own book* and government contracts state chrome tanned ....
*Also Cow hide

 

[B-Man2]

Stand by …. I think I hear the ELC Calvary coming to the rescue!

 

[P-47 thunderbolt]

Such a shame, no denying they're lovely jackets and pretty accurate reproductions, but that's just a lie.
Gary Eastman even lays out the facts in his own book!

 

[Silver Surfer]

im convinced that in spite of claims otherwise, that some early [pre war] a-2s were veg aniline tanned. this reminds me of that old bugaboo about whether moo was used for a-2s. back in the day I claimed that is was, as did John Chapman. the "experts" said, no way, Jose, only horse and goat. my reasoning about veg aniline is, veg aniline was the old school time consuming process that better leather jacket makers used, and switched over to chrome tanning as more jackets were need and had to be produced in bulk and fast. also, some of the early a-2 that I haven nd have passed through my hands a a distinctly different surface color mottling that is unique. this of course, is my opinion based on visual appraisal.

 

[P-47 thunderbolt]

Yeah I expect some were indeed veg analine, especially the early ones but the bulk, mass produced (as cheap as possible) war time A2s were undoubtedly chrome, as was the spec.
I just don't like the dishonesty in the advertising they use.

 

[mulceber]

I tend to disagree, and think it was chrome tanned from the start, if for no other reason than because I’ve seen no paperwork that would suggest veg tanned was ever used. But hey, anything’s possible.

 

[Silver Surfer]

I think that we forget that the aac and the aaf were a kind of an elite group, and were fetted with service perks. nothing but the best attitude. look at the construction of early a-2s. nothing spared. collar stands, top stitching, classy details......and veg aniline tanning. no, they didn't go to the lowest bidder. that came later.....and in some cases it shows. damn spell check

 

[Juanito]

What? Not the same as 1942? Say it isn't so! Man, I have complained about this since my first Eastman horsehide A-2 in 1990. Great jackets, wish the leather a d finish were more accurate and not a sponge in the rain.

 

[blackrat2]

Gotta say Juanito, I’ve certainly seen you post about this gripe before
I certainly have been utilising johns Chrome Tanned offerings when possible as think it adds to the overall authenticity, despite it being a repro
For me, baggy fitting and with johns human touch sewing, add a sprinkling of NOS parts and to me that’s as close as I can currently get to an original
It’s a shame Eastman don’t still offer goat and steerhide jackets especially as Gary finally proved the later was used

 

[Southoftheborder]

I'm with everyone who thinks ELC is pretty selective with the truth when it comes to advertising; and of course their leathers are lovely but not authentic. And in my experience you don't want to wear most of them in the rain.

I've had a couple of GoodWears over the years and the first I bought used almost ten years ago was a chrome tanned fairly heavily pigmented and quite early Acme. It looked and felt like originals I've handled years ago - but not being so old was not as grained and surface broken as them. But it was close to the idea of a new in the box wartime A-2. It didn't fit me very well so I sold it on after a bit and someone here bought it. He posted about it and liked it at first but later said that the hide was a little bit boring or something like that and then sold it a bit later on.

I think GoodWear sell a lot more beautiful veg tanned jackets now and that's why. Authentic 'boring' hide? No thanks the man said.

 

[John Lever]

Can someone explain how these two types of leather differ and can they identify the tanned leather by sight ?

 

[Smithy]

I'm no A-2 expert but I'd be surprised if they were anything other than chrome tanned. Chrome tanning had first started to be specified for flying clothing with the first pattern flying coat in the RFC in 1912. Chrome tanning was specified because of its water-resistant qualities. After this leather flying coats and subsequent flying jackets used chrome tanned leather for this very reason.

That will be why the specs for the A-2 specified chrome tanned leather, it was a tradition which dated back to the first leather flying clothing and was based on a practical attribute to this kind of tanning.

 

[mulceber]

I'd also point out that the idea that veg-tanned is more luxurious (and therefore more likely to be used for the elite flyboys) is a modern one. Chrome-tanned leather is much more comfortable out of the box, and as Tim pointed out, more water-resistant. The main reason vegetable tanning isn't a lost art is that you can't use chrome-tanned leather for saddlery.

 

[John Lever]

Good to point out that along with paper mills ,tanneries are hugely polluting to watercourses. Some modern tanneries don't use chrome for this reason.

 

[Smithy]

Good to point out that along with paper mills ,tanneries are hugely polluting to watercourses. Some modern tanneries don't use chrome for this reason.

It's also worth pointing out that modern chrome tanning is different from chrome tanning from the early to mid 20th century.

Chrome tanning like WWI clothing to A-2s would have been tanned using a FAR more toxic method than used now. Hence why the traditional chrome tanning method is banned in most places.

 

[Juanito]

Can someone explain how these two types of leather differ and can they identify the tanned leather by sight ?

I am not going to go into the differences between vegetable and chrome tanning, that can be found in great detail on the internet far better than I can summarize or paraphrase.

Generally, the biggest visual tell is the color of the backside of the leather. Check one of the high end, veg tanned leathers used by nearly any high end repro maker, it is nearly white. Now check a chrome tanned jacket and the leather is darker as they are often drum dyed.

Here's the inside of an actual Rough Wear jacket:



Here's a peek at the inside of a Perry at the neck:



Yes, maybe there were some.veg tanned, aniline finished A-2s early on, but your typical wartime contract Dubow or Rough Wear is certainly chrome tanned, drum.dyed, with a full pigment finish.

 

[P-47 thunderbolt]

This point has been highlighted by JC and the evidence is in the Eastman book, the spec calls for full penetration of the dye so the reverse side would be coloured due to the drum dying process.
A leather with a pale reverse side would not have passed the government inspectors.

 

[P-47 thunderbolt]

Correct me if this is incorrect but I believe Ww2 leather would have been
-Chrome tanned
-Drum dyed
-Pigment finished

I'm unsure if you can veg tan then drum dye, but the waterproofing quality will be the test

 

[ZuZu]

I don't know why the WW2 leather generally is so much more beautiful than modern stuff but it is a fact. If you watch old films both documentary or Hollywood of the time the leather always looks supple, shiny, loose and just so cool. I think the whole notion of having to wear those jackets to death before they were "broken in" is bullshit. The Eastman thing is weird because as everyone points out it's a straight up lie.

 

[John Lever]

So..are ANY leathers today tanned in the same way as in 1939 ?