Rust knits B10's - argument over?

[Smithy]

That link that Stanier put up there got me thinking, I've seen that photo before of the blue L-2A with green/sage/whateveryoucallthem knits in one of my Korean War books but I was wondering whether they were actually delivered with the green knits or was this just an in theatre knit replacement when the knits were worn. There's another photo of 3 or 4 guys standing in various flight jackets and one of them is wearing (IIRC) an L-2A with green wrist knits but the collar is blue which suggests a replacement.

So did the manufacturers actually produce blue jackets with green knits or was this just the odd case of an on base replacement of worn knits with whatever they had in stores?

 

[johnwayne]

Sun bruin, Lightning Military Archives, a Japanese publication show an L2A by Superior Togs with olive knits that when I get a mo I'll scan and add here. It's credited as being owned by Real McCoys!

 

[Grant]

Here you go. It's from Lightning's Military Jacket publication.

 

[Smithy]

Grant, my question still stands, do any of you guys know whether this jacket left Superior Togs like this or are these contrasting knits something which was done afterwards, such as on an airbase in Korea?

 

[Grant]

Smithy, given the sleeve knits are a different color and the zip is an obvious replacement it’s anyone’s guess if the olive knits are original or replacements.

 

[Smithy]

Smithy, given the sleeve knits are a different color and the zip is an obvious replacement it’s anyone’s guess if the olive knits are original or replacements.

Thanks mate. I've really started to wonder whether all this BR BS about these mismatched nylon jackets and knits are purely based on in theatre mods and repairs as opposed to being manufactured as such. I was reading some BR stuff online about how these jackets with olive knits were from very early contracts and the makers were just using up existing knits. Sounds an awful lot like the BR blurb's supposed existence of red knitted B-10s. Pardon my French but horseshit anyone?

 

[falcon_ib]

Here's the picture, two stylish gents of the 67th Fighter Squadron at Kimpo, South Korea 1952. Note that every one of the knits on the jacket on the right is olive, including the waistband and collar.

 

[stanier]

Surely there seem to be too many of the L-2a’s in existence in the pics for them to be field mods or repairs? I could be wrong of course but it just seems to me that in a war situation with these jackets being pretty much new at the time that such an apparent amount would have needed new knits and been a priority to get done? Replacing collar, waistband and cuffs in falcon’s pic, and just the waistband and collar in Grant’s pic? In my experience it’s the cuffs that get most wear and stand to go first in relatively new jackets, not the collar and waistband.

I speculate that Superior Togs were using olive knits and gradually switching to blue as they either came into stock or until remaining olive was used up. This would explain I think the different mixes we can see in the pics.

Just my tuppence worth of speculation of course but feels a more likely explanation to me.

What is beyond doubt though I think is the colour combination did exist and was used and on at least more than one jacket. I’m sure I’ve seen other pics and there’s at least another Korean War era pic in this forum in an old thread I seem to recall. I’ll have a look later.

 

[johnwayne]

Well done Grant and Falcon, you beat me to it with pics! What next, an A2 with blue knits!!

 

[Roughwear]

Did Superior Togs even make B-10's or any other jacket in WW2 ? AAF cloth jackets have always been my main jacket interest and I can't recall ever seeing one.

Superior Togs Co had one contract from B-10 jackets and A-9 trousers, contract W30-053 AC-968 from the 1944 fiscal year. I can't recall seeing any examples from this contract.

 

[stanier]

Superior Togs Co had one contract from B-10 jackets and A-9 trousers, contract W30-053 AC-968 from the 1944 fiscal year. I can't recall seeing any examples from this contract.

Thanks Andrew. Do you know how many jackets the contract was for and any view on delivery dates?

 

[Peter Graham]

Thanks mate. I've really started to wonder whether all this BR BS about these mismatched nylon jackets and knits are purely based on in theatre mods and repairs as opposed to being manufactured as such. I was reading some BR stuff online about how these jackets with olive knits were from very early contracts and the makers were just using up existing knits. Sounds an awful lot like the BR blurb's supposed existence of red knitted B-10s. Pardon my French but horseshit anyone?

Agree with you on all points. Horseshit from BR !

 

[Grant]

Hey Stanier,
So you have all the info on B-10 contracts, here's the info on all B-10/ A-9 contracts as published in Aota Mituhiro's Full Gear.

 

[Grant]

Speaking of Aota's Full Gear, here's a cool shot of a Tog's L2A with a blue collar and khaki color waist and cuffs. If any members can read Japanese maybe Aota has some insight on the strange color knits!

 

[Smithy]

I just went through Thompson and McLaren's "MiG Alley" which has an enormous amount of full colour photos of 4th and 51st FIW personnel in L-2As, B-15C, B-15c Mod, etc and not one single photo of a blue jacket with contrasting knits. At the very least it confirms that these jackets were rare in the grand scheme of things. I'm thinking it's far more likely to be something done in Korea to repair worn knits and the boys doing the repairs used whatever was on hand. Considering that the blue was superseded with the green it probably wasn't terribly long before the stocks they had to do repairs with was mostly green.

 

[stanier]

Hey Stanier,
So you have all the info on B-10 contracts, here's the info on all B-10/ A-9 contracts as published in Aota Mituhiro's Full Gear.
View attachment 2777

Thanks for the heads up Grant. I’ve got the book, I better have a look at it today!

Cheers

Chris

 

[Grant]

Hey Smithy,
Thanks for the head's up on MiG Alley, will definitely pick up a copy. Here's a couple pics of my pop's old coffee mug when he flew with the 51st FIW.

 

[ButteMT61]

There's a lively thread over on TFL about this one. Cocker is getting into the ring with HPA rep there, as well as the less than stable one.
Very heated. Interesting stuff tho...

 

[Smithy]

Hey Smithy,
Thanks for the head's up on MiG Alley, will definitely pick up a copy. Here's a couple pics of my pop's old coffee mug when he flew with the 51st FIW.

View attachment 2784 View attachment 2786

Those are awesome Grant, don't go putting those in the dishwasher

Definitely pick up MiG Alley it's my favourite book on the Korean War. I'm pretty lucky as my copy is signed in two places by Lt Jim Thompson who flew the very famous Sabre "The Huff".

There's a lively thread over on TFL about this one. Cocker is getting into the ring with HPA rep there, as well as the less than stable one.
Very heated. Interesting stuff tho...

There's a few reasons why I never bother going there anymore and that sort of arse is one of them.

 

[Persimmon]

Speaking of Aota's Full Gear, here's a cool shot of a Tog's L2A with a blue collar and khaki color waist and cuffs. If any members can read Japanese maybe Aota has some insight on the strange color knits!

View attachment 2778

I see on EBay there is one of these types of Jackets for sale from Japan. $1560
Toys McCoy Custom L-2A Patch Work Emblems US Military Air Force Flight Jacket.
Item 202152421587