Recommend me a leather jacket

[MrBlue]

Good luck with the sale, your jacket should sell well.

Having re-read this entire lengthy thread again [twice] today I am reminded why I chose to be an observer as it developed. However, I have now decided to throw in my opinions in the ring and I'll tell you why: Having recently finished chemotherapy and even more recently received the all clear from what was initially diagnosed as a terminal illness, I have made the conscious decision to use additional time I have been blessed with I have decided to pussyfoot around less and and say it how it is more - as long as I feel what I have to say will hopefully be of benefit the recipient ...I can imagine one or two who know me will be raising an eyebrow at this

So, down to brass tacks: I feel your comment above about knowing your measurements or not is really a key factor. I would respectfully point out that unless you provide a manufacturer with the correct data furnishing you with a satisfactory product is going to be a matter of luck. Having seen examples of your measuring techniques even at this late stage I am not surprised you stated yesterday that Andy is saying your measurements are wrong, while I fully appreciate the difficulties of photographing and measuring at the same time I still see room for errors even in your last batch of photos. For future reference when we say lay the garment on a flat surface and stretch both the garment and the tape that is exactly what is meant - you need to use both hands to smooth the garment to its maximum and do the same with the tape - at the same time. Do the same for the pit to pit on the front and back. The same technique should be applied to the shoulders and back length. I still see a somewhat "relaxed' garment and tape in your last images. Pedantic yes but sometimes being a pedant matters.

I also feel that when presenting a garment for appraisal while being worn it is worth making sure your shirt is pulled down and trousers hoisted up.

I would be interested to learn more regarding the comment you made last Friday - namely BK messed up the ANJ-3 twice, so they cancelled it and refunded me. Generally speaking BK have a good reputation so I am surprised that they messed up your initial order and yet further surprised and disappointed for you that the A2 they subsequently supplied has turned out to be unsatisfactory for you.

Listen, with the very, very greatest of respect, I think the only way I can see you will get something that you will be happy with is to either try on various jackets, including the potential purchase, first or get some assistance measuring up.

I am sorry to hear about your illness, but you are factually incorrect about the measurements. This is the truth:

Expected back length: 25.5 inches (24.5 inches of Dubow 42R plus 1 inch extra as per request)
Measured back length: 24.7 inches
Expected shoulder width: 18.5 inches (18 inches of Dubow 42R plus 0.5 inches as per request)
Measured shoulder width: 18 inches
Expected pit to pit: 22.5 inches (as per specs of Dubow 42R)
Measured pit to pit: 22 inches if I stretch the leather flat

Source: Andy's own information on the specs of a Dubow 42R plus the fact that I requested one inch extra length and half an inch extra width in the shoulders. Not to mention the pit to pit is smaller than it should be.

These are the facts - the jacket is not constructed as it should be. Check the measurement photos. Check my earlier post where I list the specifications provided to me by Andy.

Now, you are not entirely wrong. I have since realised that a pit to pit of 22.5 inches is still a little small for me, so yes, some learning for me. But the fact remains that the jacket is smaller than what I ordered. Do you understand now?

It sounds like you are insinuating that I am lying about Andy messing the ANJ-3 up. Here are his exact words:

Tomorrow we will ship your A-2 jacket.
We made two ANJ3s but the fist had some design problem (there were issues with the leather facings) and the second didn't pass our quality control.
We wouldn't want to make you wait any longer for a 3rd jacket so for the ANJ-3 we will refund you.
We are really very sorry about that.

We are going to sell those two jackets on ebay and when we do will let you know so if you want you may buy one at a fraction of the cost.

Send me your email address and I'll forward you his email if you don't believe me.

 

[Micawber]

I am sorry to hear about your illness, but you are factually incorrect about the measurements. This is the truth:

Expected back length: 25.5 inches (24.5 inches of Dubow 42R plus 1 inch extra as per request)
Measured back length: 24.7 inches
Expected shoulder width: 18.5 inches (18 inches of Dubow 42R plus 0.5 inches as per request)
Measured shoulder width: 18 inches
Expected pit to pit: 22.5 inches (as per specs of Dubow 42R)
Measured pit to pit: 22 inches if I stretch the leather flat

Source: Andy's own information on the specs of a Dubow 42R plus the fact that I requested one inch extra length and half an inch extra width in the shoulders. Not to mention the pit to pit is smaller than it should be.

These are the facts - the jacket is not constructed as it should be. Check the measurement photos. Check my earlier post where I list the specifications provided to me by Andy.

Now, you are not entirely wrong. I have since realised that a pit to pit of 22.5 inches is still a little small for me, so yes, some learning for me. But the fact remains that the jacket is smaller than what I ordered. Do you understand now?

It sounds like you are insinuating that I am lying about Andy messing the ANJ-3 up. Here are his exact words:


Send me your email address and I'll forward you his email if you don't believe me.

Thank you for your kind words about my illness. The whole deal was quite an eye opener and put a new perspective on so many things and this is why I am not going to get involved in a lengthy to and fro about your jacket adventures or misadventures. Rest assured you have my sympathies on the matter and also that I am not insinuating anything, if I have something to say I will say it - as I have done.

Rendering your requested [expected] measurements against received garment measurements down I can see that the differences are in fact quite small:

Expected back length 25.5ins. Received 24.7ins.
Expected shoulder 18.5. Received 18.
Expected P2P 22.5. Received 22.

For the sake or argument let's assume your measuring techniques have allowed you to arrive at some fairly accurate statistics regarding the jacket you received; it is my opinion that, based on your photos, had the jacket come with that extra 0.5 of an inch in the shoulders and P2P plus an additional 0.8 inches of back length it would still not provide a satisfactory fit for you - especially in the torso. As to the back length; these garments were designed to be worn with high waist trousers [high rise] not low rise shorts worn on the hip and barely covering the essentials - that's a joke BTW

You have received bucketfuls of advice regarding this matter. I hope you will be able to either reach some amicable agreement with BK or sell the jacket without further hassle. My strong advice remains to physically visit a vendor and try on jackets until you find one to suit. Bear in mind .5 of an inch variance in measurements can be found in jackets marked the same size especially when one is dealing with relatively small scale handmade items such as these better quality repro jackets.

 

[Micawber]

MrBlue,
Being the wonderful, warm-hearted person that I am I "borrowed" one of my son's A-2's to help illustrate some of my comments regarding photos.
This is one of Platon's J A Dubows in a size 44 that I refinished, eventually outgrew and passed to my lad. Now I have lost a substantial amount of weight it fits again, albeit on the trim side.

Arms and shoulders relaxed

Not relaxed. Shoulders back, chest out, arms away from sides. Note how to the chest is being pulled tight.

High rise (waist) trousers

I hope this helps, no I really do honest

 

[917_k]

Can’t face reading the entire thread, but from skimming and getting the basic gist of what’s going on: if you want to guarantee the jacket you buy is going to fit, presumably the best option in the U.K. is to get yourself down to the ELC shop in Devon and try some stuff on, or depending on where you are in the U.K., go visit Aero. Personally I’d never order anything made to measure without having them measure me, it’s just fraught with problems. An ELC is going to cost you more than that BK, but if you spend some time with them trying things on you’ll ultimately get the jacket you want.

Disclaimer: I’m not an ELC customer, all of their jackets I own are second hand, none of them fit me perfectly, were I buying one new, I’d do the above.

 

[Micawber]

Can’t face reading the entire thread, but from skimming and getting the basic gist of what’s going on: if you want to guarantee the jacket you buy is going to fit, presumably the best option in the U.K. is to get yourself down to the ELC shop in Devon and try some stuff on, or depending on where you are in the U.K., go visit Aero. Personally I’d never order anything made to measure without having them measure me, it’s just fraught with problems. An ELC is going to cost you more than that BK, but if you spend some time with them trying things on you’ll ultimately get the jacket you want.

Disclaimer: I’m not an ELC customer, all of their jackets I own are second hand, none of them fit me perfectly, were I buying one new, I’d do the above.

Exactly. In a nutshell. Well said.

 

[Brettafett]

Probably the best thing to do, if you dont already own one these jackets, is to get a secondhand one, or get something cheaper like an AVI or 5*
That alone will go a long way to working out good fit and what works for you.

AVI for example has free postage, discounts for non-EU customers and no worries returns of regular size jackets.
I recall ordering a 40 and a 42, to be able to compare them for fit. Did same with the G-1... So much easier than crunching numbers.

Im not sure if its available yet, but was told that with the Perry A-2s and M-422as... and other jackets going forward, you will be able to request custom sizing (Im assuming adding or removing lengths???).
You could order a stock regular jacket (or two different sizes) and gauge fit, then return it, if it needs tweaking and order something that 'should' fit perfectly.

Then... if that all works out, you have something to base all future, more expensive jackets on.

 

[Kermit3D]

You are starting to scare me for the B-6 I ordered from John Chapman...
The measuring process has not started yet, but I read your advice with great interest.
The B-6 is probably more permissive than the A-2, but I think I'll go to a professional tailor and pass on John Chapman's guidelines, to get the measurements right.
Sorry for the little off topic... especially since there must be a lot of threads that address this topic.

I also think that if you have the opportunity to try on a jacket at ELC or Aero, it's a guarantee that you won't go wrong.

 

[Rutger]

Buy and sell second hand until The One arrives.

 

[blackrat2]

Mr Blue, I am selling the Perry if your anywhere near Surrey am happy for you to try it on...as has been said the Perry has brown knits

 

[MaydayWei]

Lol I think we scared him off
Too much hem and hawing in the thread
Just make a decision and stick with it