Recommend me a leather jacket

[MrBlue]

Andy says I am not measuring it correctly. Can the fine people on this forum have a look and let me know how my measuring technique could be improved? Attached find full size photos.

Of most concern to me are the shoulders and the pit to pit. Since Andy said that 18 was the standard pit to pit measurement for a Dubow 42R, and I added half an inch, I expected a shoulder measurement of 18.5 inches. But the pit to pit measurement for a Dubow 42R should be 22.5 inches according to Andy, and I get 21 inches. Now, even if the extra half inch added to the shoulders affects the pit to pit (which it might), it should make the pit to pit larger, not smaller. So, most important thing I want to know is whether I am measuring the pit to pit wrong.

 

[B-Man2]

Andy says I am not measuring it correctly. Can the fine people on this forum have a look and let me know how my measuring technique could be improved? Attached find full size photos.

Of most concern to me are the shoulders and the pit to pit. Since Andy said that 18 was the standard pit to pit measurement for a Dubow 42R, and I added half an inch, I expected a shoulder measurement of 18.5 inches. But the pit to pit measurement for a Dubow 42R should be 22.5 inches according to Andy, and I get 21 inches. Now, even if the extra half inch added to the shoulders affects the pit to pit (which it might), it should make the pit to pit larger, not smaller. So, most important thing I want to know is whether I am measuring the pit to pit wrong.

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I’ll be happy to respond to you now that I can see the photos and the measuring tape . Thank you for posting larger pictures . Here’s the problem with the measuring techniques you are using . First , The jacket has to be zipped and stretched out flat on a flat surface. It must have no bends or wrinkles . Stretch the leather as tightly as you can . Now take your measuring tape and place it at the tip of the shoulder seam as flat as possible on top of the leather . Press the tape down and smooth it in 6 to 12 inch increments across the upper shoulders until you get to the other shoulder seam . Then read your tape . There is a thread that shows you exactly how to measure the jacket , I’ll see if I can find it and get right back to you .The most important thing is to keep the jacket as flat and wrinkle free and stretched as possible .

 

[B-Man2]

Here you go.

How to measure a jacket correctly tutorial

OK, felt the need to show this because apparently there is no certainty about how correct measurements are taken and would like to clarify things and eliminate the possibilities of misunderstandings and disputes. First of all, you need a measuring tape. Don't come with a yardstick, this is for...

www.vintageleatherjackets.org

 

[MrBlue]

Thanks B-Man2.

I redid the measurements, this time on a flat table. Will upload pictures later.

When I do the pit to pit measurement, I can get the measurement to just over 22 inches if I stretch it. Without stretching it, it is around 22 inches flat. I just can't get it to 22.5 inches even if I stretch it.

But I think what becomes clear is that the shoulders definitely do not have extra width and the back definitely does not have extra length. The shoulders are 18 inches flat and the back is 24.5 inches flat.

So this is a 42R according to spec, maybe a little short in the P2P measurement. But definitely not the custom measurement that I requested.

What does everyone think I should do with it? Sell it? Keep it?

I should have listened and gone with a 44R as advised. But when I compared it to the only leather jacket I own, I thought the 42R was most comparable to it.

 

[B-Man2]

Thanks B-Man2.

I redid the measurements, this time on a flat table. Will upload pictures later.

When I do the pit to pit measurement, I can get the measurement to just over 22 inches if I stretch it. Without stretching it, it is around 22 inches flat. I just can't get it to 22.5 inches even if I stretch it.

But I think what becomes clear is that the shoulders definitely do not have extra width and the back definitely does not have extra length. The shoulders are 18 inches flat and the back is 24.5 inches flat.

So this is a 42R according to spec, maybe a little short in the P2P measurement. But definitely not the custom measurement that I requested.

What does everyone think I should do with it? Sell it? Keep it?

I should have listened and gone with a 44R as advised. But when I compared it to the only leather jacket I own, I thought the 42R was most comparable to it.

I think that if possible you should return it and get the 44 R however , I’m not sure what BKs return policy states . Usually if the mistake is a result of the buyers error , there is no return granted however, if the mistake lies with the maker, then he should accept a return .

 

[MrBlue]

New photos of the jacket on a flat surface.

Frankly I don't want BK to make me another jacket. I would like a refund so that I can give my money to FiveStar.

I don't see the point in paying BK a huge amount of money, waiting nearly a year, and then getting a jacket that isn't made according to what I specified.

 

[Dany McDonald]

Hello,

Here's my 2 cents.

Like you and many others, in the beginning, I have had the challenge of understanding how a A-2 jacket should fit, look and feel. The easiest way is to try an actual A-2, measure it and then compare your body and the data vs the pattern. That being said I understand your frustration as you might have tried to go a bit too "fit" with your approach. So the way I read you, yes a 44, would have been okay.
Maybe, like me, your body is in between sizes and it can take a while to understand the data (measurements/pattern) to be able to order blind (internet) and be spot on!

But one thing for sure, if you are unhappy now with how the jacket feels on you, it will not get better...

Hope I give you a bit of hope!

Dany

 

[mulceber]

Understandable, seeing as you've had a rougher experience than most. Shawn will certainly make the jacket exactly as you asked. If you get another hankering for boutique leather, you might also try Eastman. More expensive than BK, but the customer service is second-to-none, and they have a quick turn around.

 

[MrBlue]

Fit pics in large size for those who are interested. My opinion on the fit - it is just a little too small. A miss is as good as a mile as they say. A little more room in the shoulders and chest, plus a little more length, and it would be great.

My plan? Push Andy a little more and see what he says. He has said to me that he thinks I have measured it wrong, but if I return it at my own cost, they will re-evaluate it. So, I run the risk of sending it back to him and then he says he still disagrees with me.

Option two is to try to sell it here to recoup my costs. Thoughts?

 

[Dany McDonald]

Shoulders looks ok, P2P too tight and more sleeve/length should do it... So yes go up a size and try Andy, if a negative, try sell here.

Dany

 

[MrBlue]

What I find interesting is that I measured another jacket I own, and it has 19.5 inch shoulders and a P2P of 22.5 inches. It is far more comfortable. This Dubow with 18 inch shoulders and only half an inch less P2P is much less comfortable.

Anyway, to be on the safe side, my next A2, whether from BK or anyone else, will probably be the equivalent of a 44. But I still want Andy to refund me, because I don't want to wait 6-12 months for a jacket again.

I like the jacket, I think the leather is beautiful and I know it will only get better with age. I just don't want to deal with BK anymore.

 

[Kermit3D]

If it helps :
I'm 188 cm tall and pretty thin (not very broad shoulders)
I have a BK 42 L (long) which fit well.

Here is a picture to compare the sleeves and body length (42L)

 

[MrBlue]

That jacket looks much better on you, @Kermit3D . I presume I have orangutan arms.

I did not specify extra length on the sleeves, but I should have. When I compared the specs provided by Andy to a jacket I already have, I did not think I needed to add more length. Of course now I know for future.

Interestingly Andy disagrees that my sleeves are too short. He says that nobody walks around like a zombie, like that photo of mine with my arms stretched out. But even with my arms at my sides, the knits just barely reach my wrists.

 

[mulceber]

Fit pics in large size for those who are interested. My opinion on the fit - it is just a little too small. A miss is as good as a mile as they say. A little more room in the shoulders and chest, plus a little more length, and it would be great.

My plan? Push Andy a little more and see what he says. He has said to me that he thinks I have measured it wrong, but if I return it at my own cost, they will re-evaluate it. So, I run the risk of sending it back to him and then he says he still disagrees with me.

Option two is to try to sell it here to recoup my costs. Thoughts?

I think option 2 is a better bet. I don't think I've ever heard of BK doing returns. Exchanges yes, but I don't think they'll give you a refund. Even if you go the exchange route, you're spending more money in the hopes of getting an exchange. I think you'd be better off selling what looks to be a very nice jacket for someone who wears a smaller size. Then you can buy the one you want.

 

[Kermit3D]

You're a little tight in the chest and a little short on the body and sleeves
From your photos, I think a 44R would be ideal (but that's just my opinion).
I understand your frustration, I sincerely hope that Andy will take back your jacket and make you a 44 quickly...

However, be careful, a BK 44R is not the same as an Eastman 44R, and it is not the same as a Fivestar 44R... that would be too easy.
Only measurements give a reliable indication

 

[Brettafett]

A-2s will not all fit the same. Many of the original makers had their own 'take' on the pattern, hence the variation. This is emulated in high end repros.
So, for a given size, say 42... a Dubow for example, will fit differently to a Roughtwear, and those differently to a Monarch, etc.
Some patterns work better for some body types.
Some patterns are more trim, some more generous.
Again, the Dubow has a very unique pattern, wider front and narrower back panel, slightly larger arm holes, than other contracts, but still comfortable at the correct size.
One pattern/ cut/ size does not fit all, is I guess what Im saying.

 

[mulceber]

Interestingly Andy disagrees that my sleeves are too short. He says that nobody walks around like a zombie, like that photo of mine with my arms stretched out. But even with my arms at my sides, the knits just barely reach my wrists.

Andy's partly right here: A-2 jackets in general tend to ride up when you lift your arms, especially if they're made with flat-sewn sleeves, as the Dubows (and most others) were. But those sleeves are definitely too short even when your arms are at your side.

 

[Kermit3D]

I think option 2 is a better bet. I don't think I've ever heard of BK doing returns. Exchanges yes, but I don't think they'll give you a refund. Even if you go the exchange route, you're spending more money in the hopes of getting an exchange. I think you'd be better off selling what looks to be a very nice jacket for someone who wears a smaller size. Then you can buy the one you want.

Thinking about it, I agree with that.

Fivestar is a great value, just be careful with the horsehide leather. It's a new leather and some people seem to have some problems. Goat leather looks great !

 

[Brettafett]

We also don't stand at attention all day either. Many of us drive, ride a bike, or sit down with our jackets on (like they did in cockpits where they were meant to be)...
So lengths are another thing that you will form your own opinion on, after a few jackets.
I guarantee you, Kermit is still comfortable driving in his car with those sleeves, which are well within WWII norms... and imho... perfect!

Plus, once you add creasing, that forms at the elbows and at the armpits, over time from wear, this can further shorten the sleeves by 0.5""...
In all my years Ive never seen a sleeve 'lengthen', but in almost 100% of the time, they shorten a touch, depending on various factors...

You needed a 44 with a 0.5 to 1" added to sleeves

 

[B-Man2]

At this point you’re better off giving up and starting over with the new knowledge you’ve acquired about A2 jackets . Either try to send it back or sell it . I doubt that BK is going to refund your money . So think about selling it . Then you can order a jacket from 5 Star . Remember this is supposed to be a happy and fun time whenever you get a new jacket . So far You’ve experience nothing but stress . That’s not supposed to be happening . It’s time to cut your loses and have fun again.