Recommend me a leather jacket

[MrBlue]

I've been thinking about this a lot more, looking at photos of people in their various A2s, and reading up about this stuff, and I think buying a super dark A2 would be a mistake.

The reason is, I think its violating the rules of what is smart and what is casual.

So, black is ordinarily a formal colour. Colours close to black are more formal, lighter colours are less formal. The shirt collar of an A2 makes it on the more formal side, which would make sense given its military origin and the decade in which it was designed (1931). What I mean is that, an A2 is by no means formal, but it is more formal than an MA1

So if I go for a very dark A2, its a formal colour on a "formal" garment. It limits your options. This is why I think subconsciously, it never looked right to me.

I wanted a black or very dark one because I suppose everyone wants a black leather jacket in their collection of clothing. And I can't wear a Perfecto (although I could get away with a cafe racer). But I've realised, if I want a black or very dark jacket, to get something other than an A2. If I want an A2, russet or seal.

I think I will still get an A2, and leave a black leather jacket for another day. Haven't quite decided on seal vs russet but to be honest I'm now leaning towards russet. Will think about it a bit more and look at photos.

 

[mulceber]

In terms of accuracy, for what it's worth, I'll say that russet would open up your options, as more original A-2 jackets were in the russet color range than the seal. I also just think russet is a gorgeous color, so I'm biased.

Also, if you're interested in a black leather jacket, you might scroll down to the civilian section of BK's listings: the Buco J-23, the Wild Boy, and the Duke would all look awesome in Dark Seal or Black Teacore. Not to mention the Durable One Star, if you're digging the Marlon Brando Wild One look.

 

[MrBlue]

Order placed.

So, after some discussion with Andy, I learned a few things.

First, there is no great escape leather. I mean, there is no unique dye applied to the great escape jacket - it is just liberty dark seal which you can get on any other jacket.

Second, liberty dark seal is changing.

Correct, there is only one Liberty horsehide dark seal. Also FYI, the new dark seal leathers we expect to receive are not too dark -almost like black- like those we used before but only slightly darker than the seal. The new dark seal we ordered is a very sweet color, we hope the tannery will get it right.

Have asked for a picture. Will let you guys know. I don't know if he has any remaining stock of the liberty dark seal - will see what he says.

The jacket I ordered is a civilian ANJ-3 with the Roughwear 27752 collar, storm flap, zip and front pockets, in liberty dark seal with medium brown thread, USN wool bomber brown knits (ie their darkest) and mustard brown lining.

Pretty excited! Oh its a size 44. My chest measurement is 103cm - he said I should choose a size 44 and we'll finalise the sizing later.

Chest measurement 103cm, shoulder measurement 124cm, waist measurement 101cm.

 

[B-Man2]

Don’t forget to show us some photos when it arrives.

 

[Smithy]

The wait always seems to be part wonderful anticipation mixed with an equal part of anxiety of whether you ordered the right size/colour/ options.

I'm quite sure there's an element of the gambler's excitement when we order these sorts of things - that might be part of the reason why some people get hooked on this, they're constantly hunting the ultimate jackpot.

Nice one Mr Blue, like Burt said, interested to see pics when you get it.

 

[MrBlue]

The wait always seems to be part wonderful anticipation mixed with an equal part of anxiety of whether you ordered the right size/colour/ options.

I'm quite sure there's an element of the gambler's excitement when we order these sorts of things - that might be part of the reason why some people get hooked on this, they're constantly hunting the ultimate jackpot.

Nice one Mr Blue, like Burt said, interested to see pics when you get it.

Yes, exactly that!

I changed my mind again back to darker colours after looking at a lot more photos. The reality is I probably have a 4-5 month wait ahead of me! With things being the way they are with corona virus.

 

[mulceber]

Congrats on the purchase - it's been a while since we saw one of BK's Civy ANJ-4 (or any BK Civy jackets, for that matter), so I'll look forward to pictures!

 

[MrBlue]

Thanks! This will also be new leather, since the dark seal colour has apparently changed. As soon as I get it, I'll post pictures, but I have a feeling that will only be September at the earliest.

 

[mulceber]

If you made the purchase in June...yeah, probably September. That’s about what the wait time was at before COVID. Hard to say what it is now. Probably longer, but possibly shorter: toward the start of the pandemic, Andy told me production hadn’t really been affected, only shipping. Since then, they’ve had several weeks of quarantine, which undoubtedly slowed them down, but the unknown commodity is how many orders they received during the pandemic. If they received substantially fewer orders than normal, they might actually shoot through their backlog pretty quickly.

If you can’t tell, I have something of a personal interest in this question myself.

 

[MrBlue]

Can someone advise me on fit for an ANJ-3?

Can I rely on Andy's advice? Or will he just say that I need to decide and let him know?

My measurements are in the post above. Converted to inches my chest is 40.5 inches.

 

[mulceber]

I don't know off hand how an ANJ-3 fits, but Andy is very good at fitting jackets from measurements. He won't just say "make your decision and let me know." He'll probably ask for a bunch of measurements from you and then will tell you “choose x for a more fitted look and y for a more relaxed fit.”

 

[MrBlue]

Can someone give me an idea of what to expect in terms of process from now on?

I placed the order via the website last week, following Andy's instructions. I guess he will contact me to finalise the measurements before production begins?

I suppose I could be waiting a few weeks?

 

[mulceber]

My experience with BK (3 times through): after you order, you won't hear from them until shortly before they start production. This will likely be 2-3 months. Occasionally if you ask, they might give you an update, but I find it's best not to bother them. After you nail down the sizing, it will likely be a few weeks before production of the jacket is finished and shipped. If you are located in Europe, you can expect shipping to take a week or less. If you're in the US, it varies wildly, depending on how quickly customs wants to process your order. Anywhere from 2-3 weeks to 2 months from them shipping it to you getting it.

 

[MrBlue]

So, this is what I have at the moment. I think it fits me pretty well - are the arms long enough though?

I don't want to get a jacket too similar to it. I'm not yet at the stage of the addiction where I'd have multiple A2s in similar colour schemes!

I must say, some of the russet A2s are amazing. So, I think I'd either go a lighter colour than the below jacket, or a darker colour.

The only problem I'm having with a darker colour is finding a knit that looks really good on it. To my eye, it looks like you would need a knit about as dark as the leather for it to look good. If you can't find something super dark, then medium brown is okay, but personally I have decided that rust knit is not for me.

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Hi everyone. Need some quick measurement help - BK is asking me to finalise measurements.

So, first an update. I placed the order for an ANJ-3 with the Roughwear collar and pockets, and also placed an order for a Dubow. Sucker for punishment, I know.

That jacket in the photos (post quoted above) has a back length of 27 inches and sleeve length of 24.5 inches.
A BK ANJ-3 in size 44R has a back length of 26.375 inches and a sleeve length of 25.25 inches.
A BK Dubow in size 44R has a back length of 24.75 inches and a sleeve length of 25.75 inches.

I suggested to Andy that we add the full 1.75 inches of length to the Dubow, and he said he doesn't think I should add more than 1 inch. He says that he has had men as tall as me order size 44R Dubows and had them fit fine. I think I might have a longer torso than average though? I remember the last time I got fitted for a suit jacket, the guy made that remark.

24.75 inches is a lot less than 27 inches! Just concerned.

Also I may go for a 42R, but not sure yet. My waist has dropped to 97cm, which is small enough that I could wear a 42. But worried about compromising wearability.

 

[Brettafett]

Is this the jacket you are referring too, that is 27" long?

ANJ - 44... Id have 26" sleeves

Regs the Dubow, I would stick with a 44.
As stated earlier, I have two BK Dubows (and one of Platon's), all 42 longs
I am 5'10, 73kgs, 40" chest, wear 32 jeans... My Dubow's total back length is 26" and fits me perfectly. The leather panel from nape of neck to start of knit is 23", that's my golden number right there.
Sleeves are 26"+

A 42 for you may be ok, especially after wearing in, and depending on your body type... Are you skinny, broad shoulders, have some mass ???
All I can say is I could not wear a 40. I'm trim and athletic, I tried one and no way! A 42 for me at 5"10 plus a bit, 73 kg is great fit, I could wear a very light sweater if need be, but I normally only wear T-shirts. Personally think a 44 would be a better fit, but Id add length.

I don't want to confuse you, Ive been through so many A-2s to get my numbers right, where they work for me.

That said, for the Dubow, I'd say a 44 with a total back length of 26" minimum (26.25" could not hurt), with sleeves of 26" to 26.5" (please account for creasing that develops after wearing in. Creases form at the armpits forward and at the elbows, often reducing 'perceived' sleeve length by 0.5" approx).

A lot depends on your fit preference also, some like their jackets shorter, some longer...

 

[MrBlue]

That jacket is 27 inches long yes. Don't know how well the photo came out, let me know if you can see it.

Thanks for your advice!

I'll probably get a 44. I'm a big guy. Decently muscular but not huge. Some abdominal fat, but not that much. 1.86m tall, around 90kg. Slightly longer arms and torso.

If your Dubow is 26 inches, I wonder if mine needs to be longer than that? Should it match the length of this Jagdflieger jacket of mine?

 

[Brettafett]

100% a 44
(42 may look like a dapper 20 yr old WW2 ace, as long as you stand dead still, arms at your sides... but you'll feel like a Cumberland sausage)

With A-2s, due to the waist knit, the leather tends to fold up somewhat. This also relaxes over time and wear, so you don't want to go overboard either.

Lengths, if like me you are tall and would like a comfortable, yet classic fit, I think the longer the better.
I'd add 1.5" minimum, or 1.75"...
26.5" total back length.
26.5" sleeves

ps have a look at this - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bill-Kel...279446?hash=item289a693ad6:g:LsgAAOSwhN9fG~r-

This is one of my BK Dubows, the first one. This is a 42, 25.5" back length, and 26" sleeves. You can see this is a great fit.
However, I just had to have a tiny bit extra to be completely happy, so my second Dubow, also a 42, that I ordered right after this one, has a 26" back length, and 26.5" sleeves... and is absolutely perfect fit. For me.

 

[MrBlue]

Thanks!

One more question. The ANJ-3 is quite a bit longer than the Dubow. If I add 1.75 inches to the Dubow, should I also add extra length to the ANJ-3?

Or just make them both the same length?

 

[Brettafett]

ANJ, based on the above, and the earlier pics... I'd say it should be the same, 26.5"

ANJ is a different pattern to the A-2, and in many cases are longer in the front.

Please do bare in mind that these are all just my opinions. I have discovered over the years that I prefer a bit more length, as opposed to jackets feeling shorter...
I have paid a high price to have finally found my 'golden' measurements for A-2s... Cant tell you how many times Ive bought a jacket, waited months, and in some cases years, only to sell it off because it felt too short or did not fit as I liked.

 

[mulceber]

Not to throw a monkey wrench into these works, but there’s something I think you aren’t necessarily considering: back length is really hard to judge because not all jacket collars sit at the same place on your neck. As an example, a size 40 of BK’s relic hunter has a back length of 23”, and actually sits lower than a Dubow size 42 (24.5”). The Rough Wear 23380 in the same size has a back length of 25”, but actually feels shorter than the Dubow.

I wouldn’t assume that you can know what back length you need in a given contract until you try it on. Andy, meanwhile knows these jackets backward and forward and had fitted a LOT of people. My advice would be to give him your dimensions (height, weight), with some pictures, and maybe the measurement from the base of your neck to where your back meets your hips (the belt line on most modern trousers), and let him guide you.