Original RW vs. Repro Collars

[ZuZu]

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ZuZu​

Well-Known Member​

48 minutes ago

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• #712

Man, this is why I pay attention when you speak Zuzu, education time. Fantastic.

Thanks- it's a curse for me and for you guys1

Here's an example of a large 48 27752 which shows a smoother neck line- a justification of the smoother line seen in repros:

However- so many more originals show the 3 part neck line fold:

I think it's because there is more material in the body of the collar than can be folded in a perfect curve- also I think that the collar curve evens out flat towards the windflap. But really it's inexplicable to me- I just see it.

 

[ZuZu]

The shape of the neck line is one smooth line- I'm sure mostly because JC wanted to photograph it that way. However- I've never seen even a GW just naturally create the 3 part neck line fold I see in so many original RWs. Not a criticism- I think it's because in pattern and sewing he has to tend toward the ideal.

Originals:

There are literally scores of examples of this in my morgue file. I don't think that wear will do this- in fact I've never seen even a well worn repro do this. It's some foible of sewing order or subtle pattern quirk which creates this especially in Rough Wears.

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[caddyd]

Very interesting.

 

[B-Man2]

I’ll throw my RW 23380 into the mix to further support ZUZUs comments .

 

[Nickb123]

Always thought the 3-part look rather than the one smooth line was the best look.

 

[Dany McDonald]

Interesting and way above my head really...

This is an older Rainbow Country RW and they did catch that detail in a way, give it time and it will start to fold. This is just a guess, maybe Chrome tanned leather being more pliable lends itself to this effect vs the more bodied Veg tanned?

Hope this relevant to the post, anyways here it is.

 

[Pilot]

One of John’s Monarch , was sold to a Japanese jacket fan. Note the correct collar folds.

 

[Greg Gale]

I always thought it was just the way they've been stored for all these decades.

 

[Pa12]

Me too

 

[Micawber]

Is the presumption here that original RW collars were poorly cut?
Or
That the cut, assembling, stitching, turning and eventual fitment to the body resulting in the appearance as seen above was a deliberate design - but for what reason?
Or
Is the phenomenon the result of a surplus of material?
Or
That there is an imbalance between the cut of the top and underside layers of leather that make up the collar?
Or
Curious minds need to know.

 

[Pa12]

Be nice if John chimed in. He’s done exhausted research and work on the rw collar.

 

[Pa12]

Sorry. “Exhaustive”. Thumbs not working.

 

[blackrat2]

Yep hopefully he will get in contact with someone and explain it, let’s be honest he has made a few so would probably have some observations

 

[P-47 thunderbolt]

I wonder if the collar is the same size of material regardless of chest size for all jackets.
Is this folding therefore seen predominantly on small sized jackets (40,38,36) rather than on 44s etc where the neck hole would be bigger and allow for more collar material?

 

[P-47 thunderbolt]

Jorge's early Eastman RW 1401p