Original A-2 Spun Silk Lining

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Without knowing the relative availability of Silk Waste as opposed to Raw Cotton in USA during the 1930s it's hard to be subjective as to when Cotton overtook Spun Silk as the preferred choice for an A-2 lining as legend would have it by late in that decade............assuming that is the case.
What we do know is
(1) The original spec choice in 1931 was Spun Silk FACT
(2) It's not easy to tell Spun Silk cloth from Cotton cloth if the weave spec is the same FACT
(3) The early contracts were relatively small and it's logical to assume there was a reasonble supply of Spun Silk available in 1931 otherwise the Air Corps would hardly have been likely to specify this material. FACT
(4) We found Spun Silk to be less that double the cost of a similar grade Cotton from the same weavers while it was available, not a major factor in the costing of an A-2 Jacket FACT
(5) Assuming (3) as factual, here seems no good reason for using a non specified lining while the specified lining is not only superior but also readily available. LOGICAL IF NOT PROVEN FACT

 

[33-1729]

Given the large variety of tests to differentiate [animal-based] silk from [plant-based] cotton, hopefully someone repairing a lining will be able to locate one example of an original maker made A-2 with a silk lining. Amazingly odd that no silk lining has been found before, given the hundreds of thousands of original A-2's possibly getting in the market and the incredible attention to detail of some original maker A-2 re-manufacturers.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

http://lifewithldub.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/the-fabric-of-lancaster-part-ii-story.html

In the late 1920s Stehi, the biggest silk mill in the world, was located in New York
The 14 Million yards of High Grade silk made in 1929 alone would have generated a fair bit of Silk Waste, being a weaving mill with thousands of empoyees, I've no doubt they wove a lot of that into Spun Silk cloth!

 

[Grant]

I've posted this pic before, but here's Hub's RW with the red silk lining.

 

[33-1729]

Great picture! Is that a re-lined A-2 or is it an original factory made version with a silk lining or is it known if re-lined or not?

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Given the large variety of tests to differentiate [animal-based] silk from [plant-based] cotton, hopefully someone repairing a lining will be able to locate one example of an original maker made A-2 with a silk lining. Amazing odd no silk lining has been found before, given the hundreds of thousands of original A-2's possibly getting in the market and the incredible attention to detail of some original maker A-2 re-manufacturers.

I wish we'd considered this way back in the Thrift Shop days when we rarely had less than a hundred original A-2s in the shop at any one time. Research in the 1970s came upwith the spec for Spun Silk lining.
Therefore at that time I'd always assumed all the linings Spun Silk and having originally learnt my tailoring making silk shirts, mainly in Spun Silk (as it was so much easier to sew) I knew what it looked and felt like, so why would I assume otherwise?
All the relines we did in those days were done in cotton, but only because we couldn't find the right Spun Silk ready made.
When we started reproducing A-2s (1981) we used the same cotton lining but only until we sourced a weaver that could produce Spun Silk to order (1988??).
As far as I recall it was only after this and once a few other firms statrted making A-2s, ELC. Sefton, a guy in LA forget his name, etc that cotton began to be promoted as the original lining in all A-2s

I've always considered this to be more "Urban Legend" rather than fact, the more the story is told the "truer" it decomes

What I can do is to get a test burn on a thread of any re-lines / repairs that come through Aero from now on.

 

[33-1729]

Excellent, Ken! Please let us know what you find.

 

[Bombing IP]

I wish we'd considered this way back in the Thrift Shop days when we rarely had less than a hundred original A-2s in the shop at any one time. QUOTE]

Ken did you ever find the photos of the Thrift shop ,you said a while back you were going to post them .

BIP

 

[Grant]

Great picture! Is that a re-lined A-2 or is it an original factory made version with a silk lining or is it known if re-lined or not?

Never seen an all original RW with red silk lining, so I'd bet it was re-lined when it was re-dyed.

 

[Smithy]

I've posted this pic before, but here's Hub's RW with the red silk lining.

Many thanks for posting that Grant!

 

[Roughwear]

Thanks Grant for posting the picture of Hub's relined A2, which I remember seeing but could not find.

 

[johnwayne]

Hmm, to echo my previous comment I wonder why this was not covered in Gary Eastman's manual? I'm sure I've read here that Gary views this site from time to time so perhaps he can tell us! Although I've not read every original letter contained in his manual I don't recall seeing anything re the lining but does seem a strange omission, don't you think?

 

[Roughwear]

Ageed Wayne. There are other omissions from the book too.

 

[Bombing IP]

Is Gary Eastman a member here !.

 

[Grant]

Thanks Grant for posting the picture of Hub's relined A2, which I remember seeing but could not find.

Sure, no problem. BTW, Hub's A-2 is the only original I've seen lined with red silk. Has anyone else seen another original A-2 with red silk lining?
I've always questioned that bunk that only aces lined their jackets in red silk.

 

[Buck Turdgeson]

All due respect to the posters here, I don't have a historical comment rather a observation. My issue G-1 from the USN had of course nylon. It was a pleasure to slip on and off and wore like the devil, never needed replacement.

Year later, after getting a ww2 repro I was not immpressed with the brown cotton liner. It had lots of drag, not as easy to slide on and off. Worst of all it collected dirt around the collar area and even wore through in record time.

My next A-2 was the Historical Goat model from G/B and I have never looked back. Tough wearing and a pleasure to put on. It slides ...like silk...because it is.

I understand that history demands cotton on real A-2's however for a repro I suggest members here to try silk. You will love it. Another option is to replace only the arms with silk/nylon and have the rest of the jacket lined in the correct cotton.

Cheers

 

[2BM2K]

Over the years I have seen many references to "The original A2 specification",
usually quoting the original colour, horse hide leather or silk lining specifications.

One would think that the original specification was commonly available for any one to see. Yet I have never
been able to find a copy, not in print or on-line.

I would very much like to read this document and so does anyone have a copy or know where It
can be viewed, ideally on-line.

Does it even exist?

 

[33-1729]

Certain it exists, but a very valid point as I too have only seen the contents second hand. Probably ought to be a sticky. Sent a request to the US Gov. for a copy. Unless someone beats me too it, I'll post it when able.

 

[Smithy]

Has anyone else seen another original A-2 with red silk lining?

That's what I'd really like to know as well. There must have been others that needed relining. I wonder whether Hub took his to a tailor in London to have it relined rather than on base, and decided to make a bit of a statement and chose red silk, or perhaps it was merely the closest colour the tailor had to the orangey terracotta original RW lining? I still wouldn't put it past being personal choice though, some fighter pilots did like to have a bit of swagger - there's a reason why many picked colourful polka dot or brightly patterned silk scarves to wear rather than monochrome ones.

 

[Grant]

Since the jacket was re-dyed as well, I wonder if it was depot request? Anyone's guess..