Modern issue A-2: the new collector item?

[LJDRVR]

Correct. Can’t speak to the Navy, but the A-2 is ground wear only. (Flammable)

 

[Skyhawk]

Counterpoint (respectfully): unlike the originals, modern issued A-2s aren't flying gear. Modern day USAF and USN airmen are issued A-2 and G-1 jackets, but aren't allowed to wear them in the air, as far as I know.

The pilots in my USN squadron wore their G-1'S flying. You had to put them under the survival vest though. This was in the late 80's / early 90's. Also the Helo pilots wore them. I think that they are too bulky to wear in an election seat though. I was in a E2 Hawkeye squadron so no ejection seats.

 

[Former.USAF.C130]

This is going to be an unpopular opinion, allow me to preface it by saying I respect this community and its expertise immensely. I’m a huge fan of G-1s and A-2s.

The Coopers and Saddlery jackets are every bit as important as the originals.

Why might that be?

Because they were actually issued, by the USAF, to aircrew.

You can debate - needlessly - the difference between serving on a B-24 during the Ploesti raid, and flying as a crew member on an Air Guard C-40 flying to SoCal on a sunny day eighty years later, because we and our jackets haven’t done either.

Both of those missions were flown by American airmen, wearing the current iteration of the issued flight jacket. Your Eastman may be an amazing replica, but it’s not real. And your original is the real thing, but to a civilian who never served or earned the right to wear it, there’s not a lick of difference between it and a gulf war era A-2. Both are G.I.

What I’m saying is that none of us are in any position to be jacket snobs. Lovely patina ‘43 Star A-2 with a depot redeye and replacement cuffs? That’s awesome! Congratulations. Shopping mall “bomber jacket with a seam across the back and hand slits? Outstanding! Wear it in good health.

Good for both of you.

Well, I was an enlisted crew member on the Douglas C=124 Globemaster II and the Lockheed C-130 Hercules in the 1960's. We flew worldwide, so I was at one time or another in various places in Europe, Africa, South America, and the Far East, and points in between. Sadly, I acquired no knowledge of the A-2 because we didn't have them. We were furnished with the MA-1 nylon jacket; like anything else the US government provides its military personnel, they weren't of superior quality. So, cynically, I am dubious about the quality of current issue USAF A-2s.

As to "authenticity" I doubt many military airmen wear leather A-2s on a flight because unlike in the WWII era, airplanes are heated, and jackets of any type are cumbersome, leather being more so than nylon.

I don't think one has to be an aviator or ex-aviator to wear a flight jacket. I wear one now because I think it makes me look studly. As an ex- trucker, I prefer a sturdy jacket to one that is pretty, because it is going to be up against machinery or other objects which might damage it. I also think a person should spend as much money as he can afford on whatever he wants, including flight jackets. That may be why I haven't got any now. As Willie Nelson says, "I spent my money on whiskey and women, The rest of it I wasted."

 

[Monsoon]

Counterpoint (respectfully): unlike the originals, modern issued A-2s aren't flying gear. Modern day USAF and USN airmen are issued A-2 and G-1 jackets, but aren't allowed to wear them in the air, as far as I know.

I wore my A-2 flying and so did others, just not too often. We never wore them during combat operations tho.

 

[MauldinFan]

I know a F-15 pilot with the USAF reserve and he's told me he HAS worn his A2 while flying and he has seen several others do the same.
I always laugh at those who declare something current will never be collectible. I knew several people who said the same of Vietnam era stuff and look what people are shelling out these days for that.
You just never know what people are going to get into. For example, WW1 stuff was collectible for a long time but it's value has gone up and down like a roller coaster over the last century.
For that matter, think of the people who "invested" in Beanie Babies to their crushing disappointment after the fad faded.
If any of you could accurately predict values and interest, you should become a broker!

 

[Skyhawk]

I know a F-15 pilot with the USAF reserve and he's told me he HAS worn his A2 while flying and he has seen several others do the same.
I always laugh at those who declare something current will never be collectible. I knew several people who said the same of Vietnam era stuff and look what people are shelling out these days for that.
You just never know what people are going to get into. For example, WW1 stuff was collectible for a long time but it's value has gone up and down like a roller coaster over the last century.
For that matter, think of the people who "invested" in Beanie Babies to their crushing disappointment after the fad faded.
If any of you could accurately predict values and interest, you should become a broker!

I think it could be done with an A-2. You would have to wear it under the harness and that would keep it compact. The G-1 however I think is too bulky to cinch down enough for ejection seat use. I never saw a jet pilot wear one flying during my time in the USN. Just saw the prop and rotor pilots wearing them. Never say never though...

 

[Former.USAF.C130]

I wore my A-2 flying and so did others, just not too often. We never wore them during combat operations tho.

"modern issued A-2s aren't flying gear"...Is this true in the USAF?
I know jackets aren't necessary on transport planes or bombers. They are adequately heated. I could see a need for fighter pilots in case they have to bail out or if one was a chopper crew flying with the door open.

 

[Former.USAF.C130]

I think it could be done with an A-2. You would have to wear it under the harness and that would keep it compact. The G-1 however I think is too bulky to cinch down enough for ejection seat use. I never saw a jet pilot wear one flying during my time in the USN. Just saw the prop and rotor pilots wearing them. Never say never though...

I was thinking about trying to predict future values of what I will call "future vintage" flight jackets. I had in mind what happened with Beanie Babies: if I am not mistaken, the manufacturer just kept churning them out until the market was saturated.

By contrast, I assume that the supply of Vietnam-era flight jackets in decent shape is limited. Leather flight jackets were not in use in the USAF in the 1960s. Everything was nylon, not very attractive, and probably has been beaten to death. But because of limited supply, I would anticipate that Vietnam era gear will grow in value.

As to modern A-2s, assuming the USAF continues to use them, the makers will keep churning them out. I don't foresee the future USAF A-2s being distinctive, much less beautiful, as some WWII jackets were.

Another thing I will comment on: if the value of a jacket is influenced by whether it was used in flight, use in the airplane clearly applied to most WWII jackets, because they were only passed out to fliers and the occasional general, and we know the fliers wore them on missions. Apparently current A's are not flight gear, so they will not have the swashbuckling aura of a WWII jacket. Therefore, I see no reason why current issue USAF A-2s will grow in value, because they are mass-produced with no limit on quantity, aren't beautiful, and have no likely flying history.

If I were inclined to collect, I would be going for flight jackets of various brands and various types of leather in various colors. And, I would wear them.

 

[B-Man2]

I was thinking about trying to predict future values of what I will call "future vintage" flight jackets. I had in mind what happened with Beanie Babies: if I am not mistaken, the manufacturer just kept churning them out until the market was saturated.

By contrast, I assume that the supply of Vietnam-era flight jackets in decent shape is limited. Leather flight jackets were not in use in the USAF in the 1960s. Everything was nylon, not very attractive, and probably has been beaten to death. But because of limited supply, I would anticipate that Vietnam era gear will grow in value.

As to modern A-2s, assuming the USAF continues to use them, the makers will keep churning them out. I don't foresee the future USAF A-2s being distinctive, much less beautiful, as some WWII jackets were.

Another thing I will comment on: if the value of a jacket is influenced by whether it was used in flight, use in the airplane clearly applied to most WWII jackets, because they were only passed out to fliers and the occasional general, and we know the fliers wore them on missions. Apparently current A's are not flight gear, so they will not have the swashbuckling aura of a WWII jacket. Therefore, I see no reason why current issue USAF A-2s will grow in value, because they are mass-produced with no limit on quantity, aren't beautiful, and have no likely flying history.

If I were inclined to collect, I would be going for flight jackets of various brands and various types of leather in various colors. And, I would wear them.

You make a lot of good points. A number of us think that current issue USAF A2 jackets will definitely appreciate over time ….However ,
It won’t be in our lifetime. Remember that WWII A2 jackets could be purchased by the truck loads for $8.00 or $10.00 each in the early 1950s . No one wanted them. It wasn’t until the late 1960s era that wearing one started to become trendy. Of course now you can’t touch a nice conditioned original WWII A2 in a larger sized 44 or 46 for less than $1500 to $2000.
And that’s an optimistic price . Painted A-2s in original condition are easily going for 5 to $6,000 dollars .

 

[Former.USAF.C130]

You make a lot of good points. A number of us think that current issue USAF A2 jackets will definitely appreciate over time ….However ,
It won’t be in our lifetime. Remember that WWII A2 jackets could be purchased by the truck loads for $8.00 or $10.00 each in the early 1950s . No one wanted them. It wasn’t until the late 1960s era that wearing one started to become trendy. Of course now you can’t touch a nice conditioned original WWII A2 in a larger sized 44 or 46 for less than $1500 to $2000.
And that’s an optimistic price . Painted A-2s in original condition are easily going for 5 to $6,000 dollars .

 

[Nickb123]

Good point about modern A-2s not associated with being worn in the cockpit and thus lacking the allure of their WWII counterparts.

While there are absolutely zero signs modern A-2s will match the popularity of WWII jackets in 100 years from now, I wouldn’t say it’s impossible. I contend that the future remains wide open for modern A-2s to develop collector’s status. I’d say unlikely, but I won’t close that door entirely…think of the paradigm shift with drones gradually replacing manned flight. Perhaps in a hundred years collectors will romanticize about the “pre-AI” age with the same fervor as us with WWII and these newer A-2s will amass collector status We just can’t know.

 

[Former.USAF.C130]

I can't dispute your knowledge or reasoning.
I suppose we would have to know what would be the motivation of future buyers of current issue A-2.
I occasionally read Gentleman's Quarterly and Esquire. More than once, I have seen ads for new "designer" garments that resemble the MA-1 flight jacket or A-2 flight jacket. The prices are staggering--in the thousands. I assume the people who buy this stuff think it is a cool look.

Good point about modern A-2s not associated with being worn in the cockpit and thus lacking the allure of their WWII counterparts.

While there are absolutely zero signs modern A-2s will match the popularity of WWII jackets in 100 years from now, I contend that the future remains wide open for modern A-2s to develop collector’s status. I’d say unlikely, but I won’t close that door entirely…think of the paradigm shift with drones gradually replacing manned flight. Perhaps in a hundred years collectors will romanticize about the “pre-AI” age with the same fervor as us and WWII and these newer A-2s will amass collector status We just can’t know.

 

[Thomas Koehle]

This is the exact jacket I bought last week. It was new. It was priced at $200; I offered $150, which the seller accepted. I have seen several of these on eBay, bearing the higher price of the Cockpit USA A-2. (DSCP Cockpit USA is made by Cockpit USA). I find the one I bought to be well-constructed, and it fits perfectly. However, there are several features I don't like: (1) the brown color is a light brown which is not particularly attractive (2) it does not smell like leather (see no.3 for reason), and (3) although this jacket is supposedly made of cowhide, it does not seem so; some kind of coating has been applied to the leather that causes the leather on both arms to "crinkle" with a network of small wrinkles and that blocks the aroma of a normal leather jacket. (4) I think this coating will prevent the development of a patina.
At $ 150-200 I consider the jacket a good value for functional purposes (manual work) but not for looks. A price above $200 is excessive; if you can't find what you want, wait a few weeks and give eBay another try.

How about the sizing? Did you buy your regular size or did you follow the advice from 3 pages earlier to size down?

Any fitpics available?

 

[Thomas Koehle]

I'm with @MauldinFan - i can see an increase of value on the collectors-market of current issued (or lets say "new generation") A2 and the USN equivalent - no matter whether they have been produced in the 190ies or recently.

Given here on the forum we are a kind of "elite" (yeah sounds great) in terms of recognise "real" pieces from mall-jackets.

Any average person will not be able to distinguish an AVIREX G1 full of phantasy patches from an issued 1968 STAR patched with retraceable nametag and squadron/carrier patches.

Such a person will possibly be part of a collector-community even for the cheapish build "new" A2.

I remember when i was around 15 yrs i volunteered at the German Redcross when we emptied storage rooms full of WW2 steelpots (still with the sawstika-stickers on them) and gasmask and had them thrown in the scrap-metal container ...

Noone ever had expected the value those things have today ...

 

[B-Man2]

A good conversation ….Nick made the point that maybe in 100 years currently issued A2’s might achieve collector status , and yes it might take that long .. but consider this .. Will any original wearable WWII A2’s still be around 100 years from now ? Who knows .. maybe … maybe not … in which case currently issued A2’s may become collectible simply by default … if someone wants an original issued A2 those may be the only option. And one more thing … after 100 years … aren’t most things collectable … by someone ??

 

[Monsoon]

"modern issued A-2s aren't flying gear"...Is this true in the USAF?
I know jackets aren't necessary on transport planes or bombers. They are adequately heated. I could see a need for fighter pilots in case they have to bail out or if one was a chopper crew flying with the door open.

Jackets are necessary. Gonna need one under an exposure suit if you bail out or ditch in the Atlantic in winter. It doesn't matter what it's like in the aircraft, it was a "bring along" item.

 

[Skyhawk]

The F-18 Super Hornet has a small personal items compartment behind and below the cockpit on the outside left of the aircraft. Pilots carry small bags and jackets in there sometimes. When I saw that, I was like "No way! That's pretty cool."

 

[Former.USAF.C130]

If I were inclined to collect, I would be going for good-quality (not top-quality) flight jackets of various types of leather in various colors.

How about the sizing? Did you buy your regular size or did you follow the advice from 3 pages earlier to size down?

Any fitpics available?

 

[Former.USAF.C130]

If I were inclined to collect, I would be going for good-quality (not top-quality) flight jackets of serious types of leather in various colors.

Re fit: I did not follow the recommendation to size down; I wasn't aware of it. Depending on the brand, I usually wear either a 46R or 48R in a suit or sport coat, but sometimes I have worn a Long. In flight jackets I have worn various sizes over the years, as my weight fluctuates.

I devoted a LOT of time trying to find the right fit for a flight jacket. I already knew that fit depends upon size and manufacturer; one maker's 46 will not necessarily be the same as another maker's 46. . . I have a size 48R G&B which fits perfectly. I have an Old Avirex in Size XL Regular, which I think is in the range of Size 46-48. It fits me perfectly in the chest and arms, but is short. I tried a Cooper 46R and it was tight and restricted my arm movements, so I would probably need a size 48 in a Cooper.

Eventually I ordered a DSPC Cockpit USA in 46 Long, on the basis that it was inexpensive and returnable. [A 46 Regular comes just below my belt, and if my pants slip down, the belt buckle will peek out.] If it didn't fit well, I would go up to a 48.

I am very happy with the fit of the DSCP Cockpit USA 46L.

I will be happy to provide pictures, but I don't have a decent camera. I know somebody who does, but it might take several days to get an appointment with her. So please be patient.

 

[Former.USAF.C130]

Jackets are necessary. Gonna need one under an exposure suit if you bail out or ditch in the Atlantic in winter. It doesn't matter what it's like in the aircraft, it was a "bring along" item.

True.