How good are bill kelso compared to GW Eastman real mccoy

[unclegrumpy]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

I don't see there being a problem with "getting the word out". Lots of BK posts here and at the other forums they frequent. An Air Show presence would be a nice addition......however, the problem doesn't seem to be one of marketing. It seems to be one of producing the jackets.

I don't think folks have a particular problem with BK "getting the word out". However, I think many, myself included, think his on going marketing campaign should be contained in a separate forum section that identifies it as such. That way everyone clearly knows that the products being discussed in that section are being promoted by someone with a financial interest in the opinions that they are expressing.

 

[Roughwear]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

I don't see there being a problem with "getting the word out". Lots of BK posts here and at the other forums they frequent. An Air Show presence would be a nice addition......however, the problem doesn't seem to be one of marketing. It seems to be one of producing the jackets.

I don't think folks have a particular problem with BK "getting the word out". However, I think many, myself included, think his on going marketing campaign should be contained in a separate forum section that identifies it as such. That way everyone clearly knows that the products being discussed in that section are being promoted by someone with a financial interest in the opinions that they are expressing.

I agree with this 100%.

 

[Vcruiser]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

At least.
I haven't even noticed a BK link in the 'Link Section'.
All BK advertising has just been posted by the company all over the forum at every opening.

 

[Steve27752]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

I don't see there being a problem with "getting the word out". Lots of BK posts here and at the other forums they frequent. An Air Show presence would be a nice addition......however, the problem doesn't seem to be one of marketing. It seems to be one of producing the jackets.

I don't think folks have a particular problem with BK "getting the word out". However, I think many, myself included, think his on going marketing campaign should be contained in a separate forum section that identifies it as such. That way everyone clearly knows that the products being discussed in that section are being promoted by someone with a financial interest in the opinions that they are expressing.

I agree with this 100%.

I agree 100% with your 100%

 

[Nickb123]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

Platon, I see that your Werber model is available to buy but there are no pictures up yet. Any way we can get a sneak peak? Also, how does it fit?

 

[Nickb123]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

Never mind, I forgot the new review was the Werber!

 

[Anonymous]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

The best thing about BK these days is that you can buy a jacket unseen and be confident that it will be look amazing and have a great fit :lol: and you can expect me to be your protecting agent who will do whatever possible to ensure your satisfaction.

On another note, we are trying to find some time between the orders to make one to be photographed for the website.
For the time being, you can refer to a pictorial of Skip's Werber here where the color shows more accurately, that Skip's own photos (too dark)
http://www.facebook.com/#!/media/set/?s ... 3158&type=

Fyi, we have also a 16160 cut since I don't know when and trying to find time to make it.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

Speaking of unseen, who wants to buy a Perry unseen?
We'll make it perfect!

 

[PaulGT3]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

unclegrumpy wrote:
Jeff M wrote:
I don't see there being a problem with "getting the word out". Lots of BK posts here and at the other forums they frequent. An Air Show presence would be a nice addition......however, the problem doesn't seem to be one of marketing. It seems to be one of producing the jackets.

I don't think folks have a particular problem with BK "getting the word out". However, I think many, myself included, think his on going marketing campaign should be contained in a separate forum section that identifies it as such. That way everyone clearly knows that the products being discussed in that section are being promoted by someone with a financial interest in the opinions that they are expressing.



I agree with this 100%.

Yup I agree 200% --I dont know sometimes if he is just part of the conversation or making a pitch?

 

[zoomer]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

The best thing about BK these days is that you can buy a jacket unseen and be confident that it will be look amazing and have a great fit :lol:

Of course, it would still be best if we could see them.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

OK I will try to show you

 

[herk115]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

Nothing is wrong with the budget jacket, it is still there. Nobody asks for it.

Well, I might be asking for it, but I never knew it existed until now! Another good reason the manufacturers should post on this forum. I'll be going to the BK website to take a look.

 

[Dr H]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

I agree, posting in a commercial section would make it clear what is/isn't available.
More easily searched in one place, too.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

yes, will start using the section soon
btw, the question asked by the thread title is not answered yet

 

[kiltie]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

... the question asked by the thread title is not answered yet

Here is one fellow's opinion on that:

I have had my hands on all three brands, the first being Real McCoy. I had HIGH expectations for that jacket, and it did not disappoint, in terms of construction and pure looks. It was a Dubow 27798. The finish on the leather led me to believe it would take a few years of constant wear to get that much sought after patina.
Here are a couple of pictures of that jacket; an overview -

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... G_5683.jpg

...and a close-up of the leather and stitching -

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... G_5679.jpg

The personal beef I had with that jacket was that the cut didn't agree with me in my usual size of 46. It really got me in the armpits. But it was indeed a nice jacket and my first proper reproduction, if US Authentic doesn't count.


Then came the Bill Kelso. I ultimately ended up with the same contract in a 48. This jacket came before the introduction of the Victory Hide and is what I believe the BK folks refer to as the premium hide. Admittedly, I have only handled the one Real McCoy jacket - posted above - but I would say that the Bill Kelso premium hide compares VERY favorably to that McCoy and with a similar finish ( which is to say, long wearing ). The BK workmanship is really quality stuff, too.
My jacket can be seen in a couple of other posts, but here are some links so you don't have to wander off:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... G_8869.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... G_8868.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... G_8867.jpg

Here is a real Dubow which, to me, has a comparable finish to the hide -

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... 5998a8.jpg
Finally the Good Wear; a Rough Wear 27752 -

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... G_8165.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj29 ... 2ec83e.jpg

The Good Wear is...everything you've heard. The hide is the best leather I've ever held, and certainly the best I've ever owned, with a finish that wears VERY favorably with regards to break-in period. The workmanship: you can just imagine what's gone into it. Without overt fawning, suffice it to say, the customer reviews and reactions are accurate. I've had my hands on two Good Wears; one goat and one horse, and the sentiment stands for both in all respects.


SERVICE -

The Real McCoys I bought second hand, so I didn't really have and experience there. In any event, It's a catalogue outfit, right?

That brings us to Bill Kelso. That's a good group of guys. I don't know what else to say. I know here and on other forums, there's some ruffled feathers over the way Andy and PLATON conduct themselves; reactions to criticisms, etc... Well, man, I get that. I'm also accustomed to hanging around people who have a real passion for what they're talking about or pursuing. I don't know what kind of cultural practices might be coming into play, the financial jam-ups in Greece, etc..., but it's clear that the Bill Kelso project is those guys' baby. And like with children, you'll do anything to protect and try to further them. And BK is still a baby. As it grows, I'm sure they'll mellow out. Me? I had a very, very good exchange with the Bill Kelso guys. Emails promptly answered, updates, etc... And the little frills with the newly delivered jacket are cool.

Good Wear:
My goat GW was second hand ( 3rd ? ), and I THINK the Rough Wear was a test jacket or sample. In any event, it was essentially new, and I bought it directly from Good Wear. I corresponded directly for several email with John Chapman, who seems an awfully nice guy. He sent me the jacket to try on before my purchasing it and supplied me with scores of links for fitting references. He was very patient with my concerns and saw me through to the end. The final transaction was handled by Vickie, also a pleasure to deal with. She let me know, step by step, how to run down the purchase. Let me tell you: that must have taken saintly patience, because I'm a bungler deluxe when it comes to internet purchases.


So, I'd say, if it was down to a Real McCoy's versus Bill Kelso: Kelso, hands down, on price alone. And that's based on Kelso's premium leather. Looking at the Victory Hide, it's clearly observable that it's a more what we think of as an "authentic" hide than what I had on the RM. At nearly a year old, my Kelso Dubow is ancient, compared to how far they appear to have come. Everything else - construction, the cotton guts, the knits, tags, etc... Pretty well dead even, in my limited experience, thus making the Bill Kelso the better value.

As far as Bill Kelso v. Good Wear...
I have to excuse myself from a final say on this one. Had I a jacket in the Victory Hide, I might be able to say something definitive, but the leathers just don't compare. Apples and oranges. The Kelso premium hide will take a good long while to get a seriously worn in look, even though it breaks in for comfort quickly enough. There's pluses to this, of course: a somewhat dressier jacket, smart with a tie and chinos...
Let me put it this way - right now, the Good Wear is a jeep, and the Bill Kelso is a sport coupe.
The Good Wear ( semi-analine veg tanned ) broke in FAST! Plenty of varying shades at high and low points. So it's what Bill Kelso is currently advertising the Victory Hide as.

That's my take at this point, after one fall, one winter, and a good early spring in both the Kelso and Good Wear, and one decent fall in the the McCoy's about two years ago.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Re: How good are bill kelso compared to GW Eastman real mcco

My BK W&G M422 after some wear...

Custom fit and it fits GREAT...

I sent vintage mouton and my jacket is large 52 so I had to send a M39 triple stamped Talon from Mash that was long enough. I was credit $$$$ for the stuff I supplied. The goat is amazing. A bit stiff in the beginning but really breaking in nicely. Wearing to a tan base. Really in line weight wise to the more common weight on most originals.

Some shots from when it was new. Notice the fading on the mouton and how much lighter it is now. see above photos.

 

[herk115]

Re: How good are bill kelso compared to GW Eastman real mcco

Okay, here's my two cents on the various manufacturers that I have experience with.

Real McCoy's. I purchased on jacket on Ebay; never had to deal with the company directly, so I can't comment on customer service. The jacket was one size too large for me (48), but fit well. The hide was stiff but looked GREAT. The workmanship was superb. Yes, the fit was a bit off, but since it wasn't made for me, my expectations weren't too high. I would still have that jacket had it not been necessary to sell it in order to raise money for more purchases. I would rate it as "good" and I would gladly buy another one.

Eastman. Say what you will about them, but I've owned more Eastmans than any other repro and I'm very happy with them. I have five of them. My first, a custom made Eastman House back in 1991 was GREAT. One of the best I've had. The horse hide was smooth with little texture but it was the right color, right fit, right "look," and the only reason it's gone is that I'm just too big for it. My next Eastman was a RW 1401 and I must say it is right lousy. They dropped the ball on this one. It had glaring inaccuracies such as the pockets way too high, almost in the armpits. Hide too stiff after every imaginable treatment that the waist band refuses to "blouse" as it should. Though it is comfortable, the jacket has a "painted on" look that is just horrid. Next after that came another RW 1401 that fits well in all respects and which I would rate as "good" and would gladly buy another (though with a request for a smaller collar). After that came two more "house" A-2s, and each is AWSOME! I would rate them as "Outstanding" and I think Eastman's house jacket is their best product. Fit well, well made, and they have "the look." Eastman customer service: outstanding. Living in the states I deal with HPA instead of Eastman directly. Charlie Disippio at HPA is one of the most helpful customer reps ever. He will work with you to no end to make sure you are satisfied. Eastman comes under unfair criticism on this site, in my opinion; if you just give them a chace to work with you, you won't be disappointed.

Goodwear. I have two of them, both purchased on Ebay. One, a goat Bronco, is just an awesome jacket and lives up to GW's reputation in every way. The other is a Dubow 27798 that was one of John's very first efforts, so I have to rate it as "good." Make no mistake, it's a great jacket, but his later efforts are so much better. You can't go wrong with a GW. I can comment on GW's customer service: even though I bought both of those jackets on Ebay, John was still very helpful, e-mailing me through this list with advice on what to buy and how it would fit. For a guy to do that for someone who's not buying from him is going above and beyond, in my opinion. If you want the best, get a GW.

BK: No experience with them, but I hope to change that soon.

Lost Worlds: Not as good as any of the above, but far superior to U.S. Unauthentic. I would put them on a par with RM. The jacket is, oh, 90% historically accurate and most important has "the look," but it is a tad overbuilt, meaning the hide is tough and the stitching done with iron thread (an exaggeration, but you get my point). I'm told their jackets are overbuilt because they are primarily marketed to the motorcycle and not aviation crowd. Makes sense. I have their Dubow repro, and I would rate it as "good," exactly like Real McCoy's. Customer service: lousy. I called to order some replacement cuffs and the owner, who was unfriendly from the moment he picked up the phone, told me I'd have to buy the waistband as well as the cuffs because he didn't sell them separately, and the complete set was $80! I told him no thanks (I'll buy some from Eastman).

Okay, I hope this helps answer the original question of this thread.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Re: How good are bill kelso compared to GW Eastman real mcco

OPPS forgot this one
BK W&G M422 back..

 

[Dr H]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

..... but GW have not put anything up in seven months? I know that the man is flat out, and that he hardly needs to advertise. ....
Couchy

If memory serves me right, last I heard ( a few months ago) GW's production average is 3 jackets per week and has been that for quite some time.

PM sent

 

[Anonymous]

Re: How good are bill kelso compared to GW Eastman real mcco

PM sent