How good are bill kelso compared to GW Eastman real mccoy

[Roughwear]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

I think the BK website could be used more imaginatively to promote the jackets. A section with photos of new production jackets would be useful as John has on his website along with a customer wearing section. Additionally reviews from satisfied customers would help promote the jackets. On a minor point the Werber 14012-P has been announced on the website for months, but there are still no pictures. Surely this should be rectified?

 

[Anonymous]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

Thanks for this.
You have no idea how difficult, pain in the #$@ and costly is to maintain the site in the way you describe.

We found that facebook can be used as an alternative solution. We can post photos of the new jackets there and due to the fact that facebook is interactive can get immediate response from the fans, in the forms of "Likes" or comments. Many people ask about the new jackets or other info and when we reply, the answer stays there for everybody to see. Very useful. Fans can also post their opinions.

Will rectify the Werber situation soon after we deliver some jackets. Customers come first.

 

[Roughwear]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

There may be a member here who could help you with the website and enable you to quickly upload pictures to the site as you do here.

 

[John Lever]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

Thanks for this.
You have no idea how difficult, pain in the #$@ and costly is to maintain the site in the way you describe.

We found that facebook can be used as an alternative solution. We can post photos of the new jackets there and due to the fact that facebook is interactive can get immediate response from the fans, in the forms of "Likes" or comments. Many people ask about the new jackets or other info and when we reply, the answer stays there for everybody to see. Very useful. Fans can also post their opinions.

Will rectify the Werber situation soon after we deliver some jackets. Customers come first.

Why not have a blog ?

 

[Roughwear]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

This is an excellent idea John. Platon over to you!

 

[unclegrumpy]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

In getting caught up with this thread several things come to mind.

1) I think a separate category in the Board Index should be made for Companies that want to promote themselves, make product announcements, and directly ask for advice. This would be more straight forward, and less confusing.

2) I think we should consider allowing the Mods to add banner advertising to help pay for the forum. I think if it was limited to site specific Companies, it would not harm anything.

3) As far as BK, I think that several have hit exactly on their problem....they simply have not made and sold enough jackets yet.

I have only briefly seen one BK jacket, and it was one of their house jackets, which is probably not a fair comparison. Over the years, I have owned 10 Eastman's, and seen hundreds of them. I have owned four GWs, and handled at least 75 more.

IMO, the best thing BK could do, is instead of making a bunch of different jacket styles and makers, is to pick one. Take that best effort and make 25 or 50 of them, and hit the road. Go to a few big Air Shows in England, and do the same in the US. Get the product in peoples hands, and then start asking them what they think. After a year or so, and selling 100 jackets, I suspect most of these "difficult" questions will start to be answered.

 

[dmar836]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

Not a bad idea. Right now, I STILL wouldn't know what I was getting or how long it would take if I ordered a BK(any contract). I think Platon has spun his wheels so long in multiple places that we are all overloaded with info and ideas but very little substance. Please don't take this wrong but every BK thread is wrought with excuses or explanations of all the difficulties with making a jacket. I'm sure it's all true but this is for sure a turn-off to a serious buyer. It just leads to confusion. For example, was the baby dot snap issue on the RW ever resolved? Do you actually have "Victory" hides in stock, today, for making a jacket? There are so many descriptions of past upgrades with others not mentioned that I'm lost. Other makers make no excuses for their offerings new or old. Perhaps JC's acquisition issues are included in his wait time rather than telling everyone about them?
Separate your personal interests from what BK is making. That's basic. Platon, you like certain contracts and styles and want to discuss them. Unfortunately, you also represent BK and we cannot separate the two in our minds. Personal things you share or debate will reflect on BK. That's just our human nature. I like to do the same but once a product is offered it is expected to be in stock or be available as shown in a finite amount of time. That's why I "don't sell caps."
Margins are tight as is the competition. Best idea IMO to get on track? Make an actual jacket and post a pic on the BK site with a price- the actual jacket to be sold. Boom! This way we know the hardware the hide the color the cuffs, etc. of the jacket in hand, period as will the buyer. If you made a 42, 44, and 46, they wouldn't last long. The serious buyer will then find you and not have you fishing constantly for interest in new contracts, etc.
The site and pics are great. The jackets shown look great. But every business needs to FOCUS.
JMO,
Dave

 

[ausreenactor]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

At the moment BK have more a tad more likes than GW on Facebook. Given the numbers of GW owners here, and in the Air show world I would have thought the GW page would be more heavily subscribed so to speak. BK have really made an effort in that regard. Lots of pics and comment from many, who I would assume, have never seen or heard of VLJ.

If the moderators were cool with it, BK could link the forum or push it to buyers, so they can:

a) interact with like minded individuals,
b) indirectly show their buys, and
c) promote the forum to a wider audience.

I am sure there is more benefit for the jacket buying public out of all of this down the line....I am planning to offload an ELC Monarch and a BR Rough Wear to fund a Victory Horse, with AtTheFront dark shade HBT lining in place of the normal lining. If they did the Army WWII cam fabric that would have been it. Spied a lined jacket like this somewhere a way back. It impressed the hell out of me. Like me the jacket would be 'green on the inside'. I promise a full review with Tianna's flash new camera. Makes me look good! Getting the ATF stuff is the first step. Unlike Vietnam, there are rules here. Lots and lots and lots of rules. One does not arrange with a coalition ally to get a parcel in! Reprisals are swift and brutal. And airsoft guns are out? Can carry 60 rounds on a fully auto assault rifle, but BB guns are banned? Anyhoo...rockets to dodge. Fighting season is well underway..

Couchy

 

[zoomer]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

Thanks for this.
You have no idea how difficult, pain in the #$@ and costly is to maintain the site in the way you describe.

If you are devoted to a craft, self-promotion is always a PITA. It's part of the mind set to believe that a good product should sell itself, and that promotion will always take away from the craft. Sadly - a lot of good products don't make it because of that.

 

[Jeff M]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

At the moment BK have more a tad more likes than GW on Facebook. Given the numbers of GW owners here, and in the Air show world I would have thought the GW page would be more heavily subscribed so to speak.
...

Couchy

I never trust the world of the "electronic popularity club" .
"Hey friends and family...folks who know nothing about our product but like our advertising....give us a "like" on Facebook !

And given that BK's marketing philosophy seems to be one of "flood the web with free advertising"........

Bottom line. Get some jackets out there into the hands of addicts/folks who are your target audience...A2 geeks. I would have suspected a whole bunch would have been delivered already, given BKs STRONG presence on the forums, and that fact that new jackets by smaller operations like GW make regular appearances.
If the product is good, it will do your talking for you.

(Also, Re; BK's online forum presence....it doesn't do a company any good to have it's official rep on TFL get angry at comments
from forum posters and get into arguments with them. )

 

[zoomer]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

IMO, the best thing BK could do, is instead of making a bunch of different jacket styles and makers, is to pick one. Take that best effort and make 25 or 50 of them, and hit the road.

How about one house jacket that is a shell, to which you add basic options . You could offer:
- russet or seal shell, same hide
- a range of knit shades
- simple or banded collar
- conventional or grommeted zipper
- topstitched or blind attached knits

(I added the bottom 2 because I'm a prewar nut...feel free to snort...)

 

[ausreenactor]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

I will have to have a look at the FL and the other site that appear to have the majority of the BK pics on Google, which I assume are from reviews. What is the tone there? Facebook can be the haven for shills as you suggest for sure, but GW have not put anything up in seven months? I know that the man is flat out, and that he hardly needs to advertise. There are many facets to getting the product and the message out. I agree with the opinion it is unwise to upset the buyers (post-ers). But if it is good enough people will still buy it... Time will tell I suppose. At least BK is a going concern for now. Still waiting for the cloned WWII shearlings to get past the zipper stage..

Holy Shit! Fedora Lounge has 322 users online. Don't know why Platon gives us the time of day? Thousands of dollars to be made over there! If they were remotely military themed I might have to drop by more often. Made my one and only post years ago..

Couchy

 

[Dr H]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

I'll see that snort and raise you a doffed cap: I prefer the slender arms and topstitched sleeves too.

 

[Jaguar46]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

Speaking of labels, here's some that will be used in the civvi jackets

This image is not showing up, so I recopied it and reposted.

 

[zoomer]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

Holy sh*t! Fedora Lounge has 322 users online. Don't know why Platon gives us the time of day? Thousands of dollars to be made over there! If they were remotely military themed I might have to drop by more often. Made my one and only post years ago..

They are exactly that - remotely military. There's a WW2 subforum, but it's really a general interest 20s to 40s forum, with a strong (and more or less self segregating) distaff presence.

What they do have is an active Outerwear subforum, and there is wide interest in period miljacs (not just Aeros as some would have you believe!). It couldn't hurt to talk it up at FL. In fact a reasonable house style A-2 might go well over there - there are quiite a few guys who are more likely to go top end on felt but still want very good leather.

 

[unclegrumpy]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

IMO, the best thing BK could do, is instead of making a bunch of different jacket styles and makers, is to pick one. Take that best effort and make 25 or 50 of them, and hit the road.

How about one house jacket that is a shell, to which you add basic options . You could offer:
- russet or seal shell, same hide
- a range of knit shades
- simple or banded collar
- conventional or grommeted zipper
- topstitched or blind attached knits

(I added the bottom 2 because I'm a prewar nut...feel free to snort...)

That sounds reasonable.

My real point is if BK really wants to compare himself to the competition, what better way than to pitch a tent down the way from Eastman's. At the end of the day, his sales will tell how well he stacks up.

 

[Jeff M]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

Holy sh*t! ... It couldn't hurt to talk it up at FL. In fact a reasonable house style A-2 might go well over there -

BK already has a strong presence there.
Andy posts there regularly, akin to Platon's posts here. (See Platon's earlier comments in this thread re; how he and Andy divide up the forums.)

I don't see there being a problem with "getting the word out". Lots of BK posts here and at the other forums they frequent. An Air Show presence would be a nice addition......however, the problem doesn't seem to be one of marketing. It seems to be one of producing the jackets.

 

[Jeff M]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

..... but GW have not put anything up in seven months? I know that the man is flat out, and that he hardly needs to advertise. ....
Couchy

If memory serves me right, last I heard ( a few months ago) GW's production average is 3 jackets per week and has been that for quite some time.

 

[John Lever]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

John is into sheepskin now.

 

[Jeff M]

Re: how good are bill kelso campared to GW Eastman real mcco

John is into sheepskin now.

A bit pervy if you ask me.