ELC RW 1401

[airfrogusmc]

And you can get a thinner grainer hide from GW if you want, kinda nice to have options ain't it?

 

[BONNIEGIRL4]

The pre and post TRUE aniline 1401's, while nice jackets are bogus next to the 2001 - 2003 jackets, that for some mistaken reason were called Mustang hide,no translucence as original, - TOM

 

[Anonymous]

Hate to be a pain but neither of these Eastman collars have the little leather tabs which originals had under the snaps- also the internal structure visible in the collar of the folded leather has what to me is the dreaded Eastman swoop- a thick foldover which swoops to a point at the collar point. originals had a consistent 1/4" or so fold- no swoop. The Eastmans both have pockets slightly too far apart- just far apart so you know it's an Eastman. I'm scarred by and scared of the smooth leather on Eastman #2- having owned 4 of these I can't look at it without getting a little woozy...

 

[Chandler]

Hate to be a pain but neither of these Eastman collars have the little leather tabs which originals had under the snaps- also the internal structure visible in the collar of the folded leather has what to me is the dreaded Eastman swoop- a thick foldover which swoops to a point at the collar point.

Not sure just what details these are that you're talking about -- leather tabs under the collar snaps? Thick fold over? Huh? Can you show us some examples?

As to the pockets, mine look to be spaced about the same as the original I posted last -- Peter's too. Guess I'd have to get your definition on "slightly."

Chandler

 

[Swing]

Hate to be a pain but neither of these Eastman collars have the little leather tabs which originals had under the snaps- also the internal structure visible in the collar of the folded leather has what to me is the dreaded Eastman swoop- a thick foldover which swoops to a point at the collar point.

Not sure just what details these are that you're talking about -- leather tabs under the collar snaps? Thick fold over? Huh? Can you show us some examples?

As to the pockets, mine look to be spaced about the same as the original I posted last -- Peter's too. Guess I'd have to get your definition on "slightly."

Chandler

He's just looking for something, anything, to criticize. The collar and pockets on your jacket look like the collar and pockets on the vintage jacket you included as an example. And even if they are off slightly, I'd say 10 years of happy wear negate these slight flaws.

~Swing

 

[Chandler]

And even if they are off slightly, I'd say 10 years of happy wear negate these slight flaws.

That certainly goes without saying, but I guess I was hoping the Red Rooster might actually be teaching me something -- just trolling, eh? I was thinking his "attention to detail" might be a bit skewed.

Chandler

 

[Swing]

And even if they are off slightly, I'd say 10 years of happy wear negate these slight flaws.

That certainly goes without saying, but I guess I was hoping the Red Rooster might actually be teaching me something -- just trolling, eh? I was thinking his "attention to detail" might be a bit skewed.

Chandler

If Jeff isn't an actual partner/investor in Goodwear, his relationship is too close to permit any fair or reasonable judgement of any other brand. Just look at his comments in regard to a vintage Monarch in another thread when he thought it was an Eastman. :roll:

~Swing

 

[Grant]

Chandler,
His comment about the leather backing around the snaps is true, but almost impossible to see on originals without feeling for it with your fingers. As for his other comments - I got a good chuckle.

Your 1401 has some of the nicest russet horsehide I've ever seen on a reproduction A-2 - keep rocking it for another ten years.

Grant

 

[Chandler]

Impossible, I guess -- here's a closeup of the collar from that same original I used as an example previously (again, thanks to the original poster/owner for his images). Still not sure just what I'd be looking for, but if it's that minute, it probably doesn't make a huge difference.

Chandler

 

[Grant]

Chandler,
Right, as I said it's almost impossible to detect with out feeling around for it but they are there. Now we're getting into splitting horse hairs!!!

 

[Chandler]

Chandler,
Now we're getting into splitting horse hairs!!!

Indeed. Well, some of us are! :roll:
Can't say I'm gonna sell off the 1401 now because there's something I can't see or identify. Amazing what can make someone "woozy."

Chandler

 

[airfrogusmc]

I think this is one very nice repro Chandler and the hide is as good as it gets but I've also seen Pauls 1401 from Eastman and his original 1401 (Grant saw this to I'm sure) both were size 48 and the his 1401 was nothing like the original hide fit nothing like the original. I guess it just depends on which time period you got your 1401 from Eastman. Looks like they have some interesting hides now. I never liked my Eastman 27752.

 

[Anonymous]

Hate to be a pain but neither of these Eastman collars have the little leather tabs which originals had under the snaps- also the internal structure visible in the collar of the folded leather has what to me is the dreaded Eastman swoop- a thick foldover which swoops to a point at the collar point.

Not sure just what details these are that you're talking about -- leather tabs under the collar snaps? Thick fold over? Huh? Can you show us some examples?

As to the pockets, mine look to be spaced about the same as the original I posted last -- Peter's too. Guess I'd have to get your definition on "slightly."

Chandler

He's just looking for something, anything, to criticize. The collar and pockets on your jacket look like the collar and pockets on the vintage jacket you included as an example. And even if they are off slightly, I'd say 10 years of happy wear negate these slight flaws.

~Swing

This is funny coming from the likes of you! Overly critical? Well let me show you what I'm talking about:
Eastman collars:

I crudely drew the outline of the fold of the top layer of leather on the collar- see how the leather swoops to a point to the collar point? See how it's 3/8" to 1/2" along most of the edge and then dives slowly to the point? Once you become aware of this it screams EASTMAN! The lack of the little leather tab under the snap also gives the collar point a different look than an original- more of an EASTMAN look. Compare to an original:

You can clearly see the little tab and also that the fold of the top collar piece is simply 1/4" from the edge- no diving swoop toward the collar point either. Now compare to a Goodwear:

Much closer in shape (not too pointy), little leather tabs present (not that visible in this photo but they are there) no ANNOYING swoop towards the point- all in all much closer to an original Roughwear. Now if you prefer to settle Swing that's fine but don't call me a shill because I have an eye for DETAIL!
The pocket placement on original Roughwears is almost always 3" or lees from the windflap- on all my 46 Eastmans the pockets were a solid 4" from the windflap. This makes a difference in how the jacket looks. 4" is too far IMO. Now again- if you want to settle...

 

[Anonymous]

Jeff, you've snorted too many of those white lines.

 

[Anonymous]

Jeff, you've snorted too many of those white lines.

Back in the day- you're right! Been 12 years now- nada!

 

[Chandler]

Oh yeah, those little details are crushing -- they distract so heavily from the overall look, I can't possibly wear my jacket ever again. No wonder you scoff. Annoying. (can I make the eye-roll smilie bigger?)

Chandler

 

[airfrogusmc]

Devils in the details....

Theres reasons why a knowledgeable collector can usually spot the repro and its the details that usually give'm away.

 

[Swing]

This is funny coming from the likes of you!

I've grown up a little bit over the past ten years, especially the past three or four, and mellowed towards this hobby. I'm concerned now more with the over all look and fit of a jacket, than going through each and every minor detail and having an anurism over them. I could give two shits what brand people buy, and as I've said before John's products look great and are steadily improving. He's right there with, and ahead of most, of the big boys. But I'm afraid there's going to come a point where he's going to have to offer more than A-2s, if he want's continued growth and want's to be considered by people outside of this forum to be on the same level as ELC and RM.

As for the flaws you pointed out in ELC's RW collars.... the extra folded under material along the seam is a little over done on the 27752 you used as an example, especially along the front of the collar. I had an ELC 1401 that was like that on one side of the collar, and never cared much for how that looked. But, this RW at ACME Depot has that going on little bit with the right side of it's collar. http://www.acmedepot.com/a2jacket/a2images/rw_neck.jpg

If Chandler's collar has this feature though, I'm not really seeing it.

As for the leather reinforcement at the collar snaps, the example you posted is the only RW I've ever seen with that tab so pronounced, and looking at the above example at the ACME Depot, I'd wonder if it even has those tabs at the snaps.

~Swing

 

[Chandler]

can usually spot the repro and its the details that usually give'm away.

That would all be well and good, if I were thinking of counterfeiting (a stupid vocation if there ever was one), I'm just thinking of wearing.

Chandler

 

[Chandler]

If Chandler's collar has this feature though, I'm not really seeing it.

Well, it's certainly there - if you look very closely... and focus only on the collar edges... and now I know it's gonna keep me up at night!! How can I live with this? :cry:

Chandler