ELC RW 1401

[airfrogusmc]

All of these repro companies say how authentic their product is. Some post side by side comparisons and the folks usually buying have not HANDLED allot of originals so they buy into the advertising hype. Some of the little details can effect the way collar lay and other small details can determine how the jackets looks when being worn and these are all things that are relatively inexpensive and not all that hard to get right. The devil is in the details.

 

[Swing]

Now if you prefer to settle Swing that's fine but don't call me a shill because I have an eye for DETAIL!

Your attention to detail doesn't make you a shill. But am I incorrect when I say that you played a part in the creation of Goodwear? I know at least one other member here claims to have been involved in the process. Whether he invested money or what, I don't know. And though it's been a while, I seem to remember your name being batted around in conversation about the founding of the company. I haven't brought the subject up since my memory isn't crystal clear, but the way you jizz over every Goodwear that comes down the pike (including some of the early one's which weren't all that great), and rip everything else, I'm thinking my memory is at least half right.

I have no problem with members here hyping their favorite brand. I've been as guilty of that as anyone. But John has been very much a gentleman and respectful of the forum and his position as moderator when it comes to his product. I'd hope anyone else close to him or involved with the company would also be as respectful.

~Swing

 

[Swing]

If Chandler's collar has this feature though, I'm not really seeing it.

Well, it's certainly there - if you look very closely... and focus only on the collar edges... and now I know it's gonna keep me up at night!! How can I live with this? :cry:

Chandler

I haven't posted close ups of my ELC Monarch for just the same reason. Other than it's slightly short sleeves, I'm pretty happy with it. I know if Jeff got ahold of it, I'd never want to wear it again.

~Swing

 

[Chandler]

Some of the little details can effect the way collar lay and other small details can determine how the jackets looks when being worn

But there's more to the look of how a jacket fits other than such small details as a bigger fold-over in a collar -- waist size on the wearer, for one -- then, and now. And for all you "handlers" out there, when you've "handled" each and every flight jacket ever produced from 1931 through 1945, then I'll let you tell me mine don't look right.

You said it before Froggy, good to have choices and to each his own.

Chandler

 

[zoomer]

I certainly would not want a Good Wear that anyone "jizzed over." :?

Swoops be damned. I go with Weinschenker's Axiom: "try on a jacket, look in the mirror, and decide if it looks like 1942."

My ELC 1401 looks 1942 - 1941, even - so I'm happy. Of course my ELC Werber looks 1933, which makes me even happier. Swoops and all.

Rote, does the rest of your clothing drive you this far up the wall?

 

[Chandler]

Rote, does the rest of your clothing drive you this far up the wall?

LOL!

I wondered about his poor wife and kids!

Chandler

 

[Roughwear]

I know that comparing the details on repros by one maker with those of another and with originals can be fascinating and, yet frustrating when this leads to arguments amongst enthusiasts. At the end of the day collecting and wearing both vintage and reproduction flight jackets is a great hobby which brings enjoyment to many.

 

[Anonymous]

Jeff, you've snorted too many of those white lines.

Back in the day- you're right! Been 12 years now- nada!

Me too, it has been about 12 weeks minus an eight ball. p.s. love that Labrador.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Some of the little details can effect the way collar lay and other small details can determine how the jackets looks when being worn

But there's more to the look of how a jacket fits other than such small details as a bigger fold-over in a collar -- waist size on the wearer, for one -- then, and now. And for all you "handlers" out there, when you've "handled" each and every flight jacket ever produced from 1931 through 1945, then I'll let you tell me mine don't look right.

You said it before Froggy, good to have choices and to each his own.

Chandler

Absolutely... The thing though when you hype your product to be the end all in authenticity ya better be able to back it up thats all. We all have our favorites for a variety of different reasons. I would say the top 3 or 4 would all be great choices. I tend to trust the opinions of those that have handled and owned HUNDREDS of originals and weigh there opinions very heavily when talking about repros. I've always said if you want 100% authentic by original.
Oh and the one guy I trust owns GW

 

[Anonymous]

This is funny coming from the likes of you!

I've grown up a little bit over the past ten years, especially the past three or four, and mellowed towards this hobby. I'm concerned now more with the over all look and fit of a jacket, than going through each and every minor detail and having an anurism over them. I could give two shits what brand people buy, and as I've said before John's products look great and are steadily improving. He's right there with, and ahead of most, of the big boys. But I'm afraid there's going to come a point where he's going to have to offer more than A-2s, if he want's continued growth and want's to be considered by people outside of this forum to be on the same level as ELC and RM.

As for the flaws you pointed out in ELC's RW collars.... the extra folded under material along the seam is a little over done on the 27752 you used as an example, especially along the front of the collar. I had an ELC 1401 that was like that on one side of the collar, and never cared much for how that looked. But, this RW at ACME Depot has that going on little bit with the right side of it's collar. http://www.acmedepot.com/a2jacket/a2images/rw_neck.jpg

If Chandler's collar has this feature though, I'm not really seeing it.

As for the leather reinforcement at the collar snaps, the example you posted is the only RW I've ever seen with that tab so pronounced, and looking at the above example at the ACME Depot, I'd wonder if it even has those tabs at the snaps.

~Swing

All Roughwears have the little tabs- as afar as I know all Eastmans don't (some in the pockets). The original you showed from Marc's site does NOT have that ugly Eastman swoop- if you think it does maybe you don't understand. If you can't see the little tabs on Marc's example (the same one you see the swoop in) maybe you should adjust your computer screen. I've been collecting repros since the 70s- I've always been frustrated by all the little mistakes (and the big ones too) and especially the interpretations all the repro companies seemed to have to do. Goodwear's jackets have always tried to be copies of originals- even the earliest ones had that WW2 look in their fit UNLIKE all tyhe other repro companies with their droopy shoulders, short waists, long epaulets, etc. etc. I had nothing to do with Goodwear's founding except to cheer John on- I saw a light at the end of the smooth overly perfect caca tunnel which is the fare IMO of other companies. Don't get mad at me if over the years you've lost your eye for detail and just want "a look" which is good 20 feet away... I'll give Eastman a break when they stop interpreting and start copying although I don't think they can afford to do what John does.

 

[Anonymous]

Oh yeah, those little details are crushing -- they distract so heavily from the overall look, I can't possibly wear my jacket ever again. No wonder you scoff. Annoying. (can I make the eye-roll smilie bigger?)

Chandler

Gee- sorry I have a hobby I enjoy- sorry I can't "settle". You may not think so but I guarantee you I can spot one of the big company repros a mile away overall look or no.

 

[Anonymous]

can usually spot the repro and its the details that usually give'm away.

That would all be well and good, if I were thinking of counterfeiting (a stupid vocation if there ever was one), I'm just thinking of wearing.

Chandler

I WANT a counterfeit thank you.

 

[Anonymous]

Swing:

I have no problem with members here hyping their favorite brand. I've been as guilty of that as anyone. But John has been very much a gentleman and respectful of the forum and his position as moderator when it comes to his product. I'd hope anyone else close to him or involved with the company would also be as respectful.

Respectful of what? I am only hyping John's stuff BECAUSE I LIKE IT! I only knock the other repros BECAUSE I"M SICK TO DEATH OF THEM! Forgive me for having strong opinions about reproduction A-2s ON A VINTAGE LEATHER JACKET FORUM! You are correct not to judge John by my words - I have nothing to do with Goodwear except as a happy repeat customer.

 

[deeb7]

- I have nothing to do with Goddwear except as a happy repeat customer.

Typo?

Or Freudian Slip?

 

[Chandler]

Gee- sorry I have a hobby I enjoy- sorry I can't "settle".

I'm no psychologist, but there's a fuzzy line between enjoyment and obsession my friend -- right there between satisfaction and "settling." Thought about help?

Chandler

 

[rich]

Gee- sorry I have a hobby I enjoy- sorry I can't "settle".

I'm no psychologist, but there's a fuzzy line between enjoyment and obsession my friend -- right there between satisfaction and "settling." Thought about help?

Chandler

Maybe it's easier to see everything in terms of black and white - why concern yourself with all those
annoying little shades of grey in between?

 

[airfrogusmc]

I think for allot of people that post here and spend money on higher in repros the details are important. If the details weren't important then just buy a avirex. The devils in the details.

 

[Chandler]

If the details weren't important then just buy a avirex.

There's a point to details, then there's obsession. To me, the overall appearance of an A-2 repro is worth more than a little tab within the layers of a collar that can rarely be seen - even in most originals.

I had an Avirex - was my second repro. Never looked the part, overall, as my ELC and FS jackets do.

Chandler

 

[airfrogusmc]

If the details weren't important then just buy a avirex.

There's a point to details, then there's obsession. To me, the overall appearance of an A-2 repro is worth more than a little tab within the layers of a collar that can rarely be seen - even in most originals.

I had an Avirex - was my second repro. Never looked the part, overall, as my ELC and FS jackets do.

Chandler

I agree it has to look right worn but that does usually happen when the maker is paying close attention to the details. How arm holes are cut, cut and shape of collars, proportion and fit, all the details go into making a great repro.

 

[Chandler]

I agree it has to look right worn but that does usually happen when the maker is paying close attention to the details. How arm holes are cut, cut and shape of collars, proportion and fit, all the details go into making a great repro.

While I agree for the bigger part, I reiterate my first sentence above: There's a point to details, then there's obsession.

Of course, this is mostly pointed at the stitch nazis, but I imagine those who manufacture the high-end articles of clothing as a profession have probably looked into everything that adds to the overall look of their piece -- after all, they're the craftsman. And I imagine a 1/2 inch tab of fabric sandwiched within two other pieces of fabric doesn't make a big difference in the overall look of the jacket.

Unless you're obsessive compulsive, I guess.

Chandler