Eastman / Aero price gouging on overseas sales

[SuinBruin]

One other point... HPA is also benefiting from ELC's practice of not discounting VAT. A jacket buyer in the US comparison shopping between ELC and HPA will notice that the list prices are just about the same and would in many cases prefer to deal with HPA as it's in the same country. He won't know that the ELC prices include a 20% tax component that he shouldn't have to pay.

Apples to apples, the ELC prices should be about 17% cheaper for a US buyer, which would make buying from ELC more attractive than buying from HPA. HPA would have to reduce its prices to remain competitive, which it obviously wouldn't want to do.

I would hate to be accused of Yank bashing, but I wonder if ELC's VAT policy isn't tied in somehow to their relationship with HPA...?

 

[Vcruiser]

Jeeze..
Isn't it simple?
Brit customers pay (say) $1000 for ELC/Aero jacket which 'includes' Brit VAT tax.
American customer pays same $1000 'including' that same Brit Vat tax(for some reason?)...then + duty(tax) into USA.
ELC/Aero doesn't pay Brit VAT tax to Brit government for jackets sold to USA. So,instead,this goes into ELC/Aero's pocket...right?
...So ELC/Aero is making more profit off of USA customers...since no VAT tax is due to Brit government on those sales.
Correct..?

Van

 

[ButteMT61]

If I drive to Oregon to buy a car, I don't pay sales tax. That will save me $2000 on a $20,000 car that I would buy in CA. I'm not paying less for the car in Oregon - I'm not paying taxes! The car still costs me $20,000. Very simple math.

I have bad news for you. Unless you keep the car registered in Oregon and can keep the Oregon plates from being noticed by the CHP or your local police, you will get hit with all the California taxes at the CA DMV.....same goes for Washington State.

The bastards will even try to charge you the sales tax you if you are moving to the State....I am not sure what the current rules are, but it used to be you have to prove you have owned the vehicle for over six months and were new to the State.

Of course - but for this example, I was merely stating that I am paying the same for the car as someone paying taxes. Taxes are not meant to be a hidden profit for the dealers...
It helps if you have a home in those states - I do

 

[unclegrumpy]

I was not trying to pick on you, but I have been harassed by the police before over out of state plates on my vehicles.....and painfully fought the taxman at the DMV.

 

[ButteMT61]

I was not trying to pick on you, but I have been harassed by the police before over out of state plates on my vehicles.....and painfully fought the taxman at the DMV.

No picking assumed! I'm American, not British :lol:

 

[unclegrumpy]

No picking assumed! I'm American, not British....

Yes, but a "hated" Californian! :lol:

 

[ButteMT61]

Always. And I think you mean, Kalifornian!

 

[unclegrumpy]

Always. And I think you mean, Kalifornian!

No, I wouldn't say that....not after serving some time there myself. :shock:

 

[Anonymous]

Suppose US buyers should not pay VAT.

Suppose I am a British guy who wants to buy a jacket from ELC.
Jacket costs GBP 699
less 20% VAT it costs GBP 582.5
(i.e. VAT = 116.5)
Shipping cost to USA is GBP 40
So a US buyer should pay total GBP 582.5 + 40 = GBP 622.5
So I have the jacket shipped to a friend of mine in USA who receives it and sends it back to me as gift.
Shipping cost from USA to UK with USPS priority about $40 or GBP 25.4
So the jacket finally cost me GBP 622.5 + 25.4 = GBP 647.9

GBP 699 - 647.9 = 51.1

Here you go, I saved GBP 51.1

Do you think the taxman is so dumb? I don't think so.

Here's why IMHO all buyers should pay VAT, because VAT is applied based on where the sale took place, (in this case in the UK) and irrespective of where the buyer is located.

I guess to qualify as 'export' there may be other requirements e.g. volume sale or others, I don't know.

 

[Persimmon]

Suppose US buyers should not pay VAT.

Suppose I am a British guy who wants to buy a jacket from ELC.
Jacket costs GBP 699
less 20% VAT it costs GBP 582.5
(i.e. VAT = 116.5)
Shipping cost to USA is GBP 40
So a US buyer should pay total GBP 582.5 + 40 = GBP 622.5
So I have the jacket shipped to a friend of mine in USA who receives it and sends it back to me as gift.
Shipping cost from USA to UK with USPS priority about $40 or GBP 25.4
So the jacket finally cost me GBP 622.5 + 25.4 = GBP 647.9GBP 699 - 647.9 = 51.1

Here you go, I saved GBP 51.1Do you think the taxman is so dumb? I don't think so.

Here's why IMHO all buyers should pay VAT, because VAT is applied based on where the sale took place, (in this case in the UK) and irrespective of where the buyer is located.

I guess to qualify as 'export' there may be other requirements e.g. volume sale or others, I don't know.

You forgot about the tax charge for importing the goods into (back in this case) England. Approx 10% of the jacket value plus a handling charge for the privilage of handling the transaction
You wont save any money in your example but pay more

 

[Anonymous]

You forgot about the tax charge for importing the goods into (back in this case) into England. Approx 105 of the jacket value

I didn't forget. I said my friend will declare "gift" in the customs form.
Gifts don't pay tax.

 

[Persimmon]

You forgot about the tax charge for importing the goods into (back in this case) into England. Approx 105 of the jacket value

I didn't forget. I said my friend will declare "gift" in the customs form.
Gifts don't pay tax.

Gifts are still subject to charges believe me.
If you were to have a jacket sent from the States to the UK and even with Gift marked on it , the Customs can and often will subject it to a charge

Our Customs guys are not as dumb as you might think !!

 

[Anonymous]

Really? they would impose import tax on an item that reads "made in England" such as an ELC jacket?
I 'd like to see that.
ha ha

 

[Persimmon]

Really? they would tax import for an item that reads "made in England" such as an ELC jacket?

The jacket could have been purchased brand new in the States (eg) from HPA and sent overseas to a UK customer.
Then (especially as its new) it will mean it will be subject to the whims of the UK customs department

Try ordering a jacket from Charles and await the bill (if its delivered to the UK)
Which you have to pay before the parcel is released to you
Not sure about your equivalent department in Greece

 

[Anonymous]

they can't impose import tax on items made in UK no matter what

 

[Persimmon]

they can't impose import tax on items made in UK no matter what

Platon
If a purchase is made and its shipped to the UK as a sale as we are being precise now then it is subject to the import laws of the UK
You will pay a charge and whether its got a Made in England or even hand crafted by the Queen on the label it is still subject to our customs guys and their charges !

 

[m444uk]

Really? they would impose import tax on an item that reads "made in England" such as an ELC jacket?
I 'd like to see that.
ha ha

Your right, there is no import duty on items returning to the place of manufacture. That's one of the reasons the custom declaration form asks where the item was made. But if you kept doing it you would be investigated for carousel fraud. This is where small high value items like computer chips are shipped into and out of the EU numerous times to reclaim input VAT.

 

[m444uk]

Suppose US buyers should not pay VAT.

Suppose I am a British guy who wants to buy a jacket from ELC.
Jacket costs GBP 699
less 20% VAT it costs GBP 582.5
(i.e. VAT = 116.5)
Shipping cost to USA is GBP 40
So a US buyer should pay total GBP 582.5 + 40 = GBP 622.5
So I have the jacket shipped to a friend of mine in USA who receives it and sends it back to me as gift.
Shipping cost from USA to UK with USPS priority about $40 or GBP 25.4
So the jacket finally cost me GBP 622.5 + 25.4 = GBP 647.9

GBP 699 - 647.9 = 51.1

Here you go, I saved GBP 51.1

Do you think the taxman is so dumb? I don't think so.

Here's why IMHO all buyers should pay VAT, because VAT is applied based on where the sale took place, (in this case in the UK) and irrespective of where the buyer is located.

I guess to qualify as 'export' there may be other requirements e.g. volume sale or others, I don't know.

You've forgotten the end user has to pay VAT in the EU. So unless the items value is under-declared it's a zero sum game.

 

[SuinBruin]

Here's why IMHO all buyers should pay VAT, because VAT is applied based on where the sale took place, (in this case in the UK) and irrespective of where the buyer is located.

That may be your Humble Opinion, but British Law says that overseas (outside the EU) buyers do not pay VAT.

And for the sake of clarity: Eastman and Aero are not charging VAT on overseas sales. They're just keeping a bonus 20% markup and not disclosing it.

 

[Dr H]

Still no comment on FL - obviously more sanguine than I thought.