Discussion: “A Better Fighting Garment…” - A Beginner’s Guide to the US Navy’s WWII-era and later Intermediate Flight Jackets

[tda003]

I don't know if this is the place for this post and will move it if requested. This is a photo of the label from my Gordon & Ferguson M-422A. Note that the contract number is different than any of the 3 contract numbers posted here and on the internet for a G&F M-422A. I think the contract number is N8s 416-A (or possibly N0s 416-A). The others are: 88860, NXs. 416-A & NXs.416

 

[mulceber]

That's an interesting one, TDA. Do you happen to have a photo that's a bit more head on? This one's at a bit of an angle and that makes it hard to read what is already an abraded label.

 

[tda003]

Here's my best shot.

 

[mulceber]

Looking at the way it's stitched, I think it's "NO. NOs 416-A"

To be honest, I don't know the answer here. It's at least conceivable that this is a heretofore unattested 4th M-422A contract for G&F. But given how similar that number is to NXs.416-A, I'm more inclined to say that when G&F ordered the labels for the NXs.416-A, the person designing the label screwed up at one point, read NO. NXs.416-A as NO. NOs 416-A, only noticed the error after they'd made a few (hundred?) labels, and decided to just shuffle them in with the corrected labels, rather than do them all over again. That's my best guess.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

The 416-A contract was listed in our table for M-422A but I don't think we had any pictures of that contract at that time we posted that. I think posting a comparable suite of jacket pictures of that contract would fill a gap in this resource. Inevitably as gaps get filled the information will run out of sequence but I don't think that can be helped.

I agree with Jan that the label does look awfully like NOs 416-A to me.

 

[Maverickson]

Hi,
Here is same rcsmplr taken from my pristine G&G.

Cheers, Dave

 

[mulceber]

Thanks Dave! Do you think the NOs is a typo, or was this a separate contract?

 

[Maverickson]

Thanks Dave! Do you think the NOs is a typo, or was this a separate contract?

I believe that they are from the same contract.

Cheers, Dave

 

[tda003]

FWIW. I found MIL-M-5631, the military specification for mouton for flight clothing. The specs for mouton for the type I (G-1 thru MIL-J-7823D) call for wool with an average fiber diameter of 24.95 microns to 26.39 mikcrons and a standard deviation ikn fiber of 7.09 microns or less and a length of +1/2 inch.

The color is specified in specs for the jackets. "The color of the mouton shall match the color of the leather outer shell..."

Nope, no clue as to the size of a micron, but guessing that it's very damned small.

 

[mulceber]

Nope, no clue as to the size of a micron, but guessing that it's very damned small.

1/1000 of a millimeter.

 

[tda003]

I just purchased a G&F M-422A from John at GW. I sent him the pic of the label which I posted hear.

This is his reply:
"You have a SUPER rare Gordon & Ferguson M-422A. There was a small contract with that label, and the big difference is that the body joints have the back panels over the front panels, where the huge contract that has my reproduction label was done with the front body seams rolled over the back seams, which is a little easier to sew for the machine operators."

I can post pictures if desired. If so, I'll wait until his arrives and post comparison photos.

The Lord loves former Marines!

 

[mulceber]

Ya learn something new every day!

 

[tda003]

The GF M-422A from GW arrived. (Actually several days ago, but I've been quail hunting.) I'll post full photos of it in the Reproduction section later, but here's a comparison of John's NXs. 416 vs my N0s 416A showing the difference in the stitching he mentioned.

 

[Chandler]

The GF M-422A from GW arrived. (Actually several days ago, but I've been quail hunting.) I'll post full photos of it in the Reproduction section later, but here's a comparison of John's NXs. 416 vs my N0s 416A showing the difference in the stitching he mentioned.View attachment 76127

Can we see more images of your original to see the bi-swing configuration?

 

[YoungMedic]

Very cool! staggering to think of all the ways to skin a jacket

 

[Chandler]

The GF M-422A from GW arrived. (Actually several days ago, but I've been quail hunting.) I'll post full photos of it in the Reproduction section later, but here's a comparison of John's NXs. 416 vs my N0s 416A showing the difference in the stitching he mentioned.View attachment 76127

I just looked at my AN-6552, '50s Monarch G-1, and Flight Suits Ersatz AN-J -- the 2 authentic jackets are sewn like your original M-422a and the FS is sewn like the GW.

Looks to me that the sewing was up to whoever was manning the machine.

 

[tda003]

According to John, the reason for the change after the NOs 416A was to make it easier for the machine operators to make the seams with that change.

Here's a pic of the arm gussets of the 2 jackets. As you can see, other than that 1 seam, they are the same.

 

[FlyWright]

Star Sportswear 55J14, courtesy of @Jorgeenriqueaguilera
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Star Sportswear 55J14, courtesy of @Jorgeenriqueaguilera
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As I'm a brand new member, and only just today found this forum, I wanted to express how incredible this feed is and very much appreciate the amazing research that must have been involved in chronicling the navy flight jacket! Thanks!

 

[ausreenactor]

As I'm a brand new member, and only just today found this forum, I wanted to express how incredible this feed is and very much appreciate the amazing research that must have been involved in chronicling the navy flight jacket! Thanks!

G'day and Welcome good Sir!

 

[FlyWright]

Guys !
PLEASE! …. PLEASE! …… PLEASE! … Do what ever is necessary to turn the information in this thread into a permanent resource “Sticky” or some other type of permanent resource document. The information here is too valuable to let fade away over time into the VLJ thread archives.
Thank you all for this impressive research and photographs .
MODS …… Please make this happen .

Not sure how to post properly but wanted to mention that I didn't see Willis & Geiger listed in the 55J14 section as a manufacturer. I have an example of one in my collection. For what it's worth.