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Boots / shoes to wear with your flight jacket s...
- Thread starter ties70
- Start date
mulceber
Moderator
Yep:
The bulge that you can see in the arch in this picture is the leather shank.
From what Rose Anvil has said after deconstructing a pair of Aldens, the comfort is in large part because of the wide toe box, and because the Thomas heel will provide good arch support for people with normal arches, but it doesn't really help at all if you have high arches, because the bed of the insole is rather flat. White's MP boot is constructed on a similar last to the Aldens, but there's a lot of built-up leather in the mid-sole of the arch, so it's better for people with high arches.
Drzdave58
Well-Known Member
Put some kilties on if u want to protect the tongues. Nice boots and great review!View attachment 136183
Here’s my contribution to the thread. For a while now, I’ve been thinking about trying a nice pair of boots, but I fence-sat for a while. While all the ones I’ve seen looked great, I’ve frankly never had a pair of boots that I considered particularly comfortable (and I’ve owned a pair of Alden Indy boots!) I love the idea of “heritage boots” but, I’d never had the experience of owning boots that I ENJOY wearing.
Nevertheless, because of the fine folks here and, even more, because of the boot community on youTube (especially “Rose Anvil,” “Bootlosophy,” “Stridewise,” and “Carl Murawski”), I was feeling the itch (no, it wasn’t athlete’s foot).
What I was looking for:
I watch a lot of youtube videos when I’m at home, so I saw reviews of a lot of different companies - Thursday, Grant Stone, Parkhurst, Viberg, some of the Indonesian brands, and of course the Pacific Northwest (PNW) brands in and around Spokane, WA. It was the PNW brands, like White’s and Nicks that caught my eye: everyone talked about the phenomenal construction - not only made in the USA, but lasted by hand. The PNW brands are famous for a couple of quirks in their construction: instead of the typical cork midsole and steel shank, they opt for several layers of leather in the sole and a leather shank - apparently they have some oak bark tanned leather that might as well be wood and they use that instead of steel. The multiple layers of leather will mould to your foot like the cork midsole. The difference is that cork can eventually start to move around to create uncomfortable hotspots, where a leather sole won’t. At least, that’s the theory.
- Great arch support. That’s apparently not very common with boots, but my doctor has told me I need it, and I wear inserts in most of my shoes. This is probably why Alden was a flop for me. I really wanted a pair of boots that wouldn’t require inserts.
- A streamlined look. I know that the bulbous toe of Iron Rangers is the way boots actually looked back in the day, but I don’t care about accuracy when it comes to boots. I’ve never really liked the rounded toe that you see on actual old-school boots, so Iron Rangers were a no-go.
- Preferably made in the USA, but at least made in a first-world nation. Where possible these days, I like to support our home-grown industries.
More importantly, at least for me, both Nicks and White’s are famous for having great arch support. These two makers are a bit on the expensive side, ranging from $500-700, but I really liked the look of them, and I’ve already had the experience (with jackets) of buying the budget option when you want the deluxe option, and having it not really scratch the itch. So I figured, “what the heck - get the boot you want the first time.” Besides, I’ve had good luck buying my leather jackets from the state of Washington.
So that effectively narrowed my search down to White’s MP service boot, and Nicks’ Americana. The Nicks were cheaper, but they had a longer wait time and the pictures made them look like they had that bulbous toe I don’t like. White’s seemed like exactly what I was looking for. Even better, they frequently have sales that will bring the cost of their service boot down to the same ballpark as Nicks.
I heard good things about their cinnamon waxed flesh (basically a Horween rough-out that’s been so packed with waxes and oils that the rough-out starts to resemble the surface of regular leather), and it looked great to me, so I went for that. After a bit of angsting over the size (tbh, I’m still not sure what my Brannock size is), I bought a pair in 11D in November and sat down for what I expected would be a wait of 2-4 months. Nope! They arrived in just about 4 weeks.
View attachment 136185
First Impressions:
View attachment 136187
- They smell fantastic. Stridewise had quipped that his MPs smell like a candle. That makes me think of Yankee Candle. I just think they smell intensely of LEATHER.
- White’s includes two pairs of laces - one pair of leather, and one pair of waxed cotton laces. I picked the waxed cotton, since I thought they’d be more versatile, and let me say, they are SERIOUSLY waxed. The first couple times I laced them up, they were shedding residue. That isn’t a complaint! I just took it as a sign that White’s isn’t messing around.
- The arch support is excellent. For this reason alone, I’d buy PNW again.
- The fit was great - I think it could stand to be a LITTLE more snug. I’ve heard some boot people recommend going a half size smaller and a size wider than White’s size guide recommends. I could probably have done that, but this is a good fit. And it’s got just enough room for me to wear a second pair of socks for breaking in, and for cold days. They advised me well.
- The cinnamon waxed flesh is darker than it looked on my computer screen. I was expecting what we would call a light seal brown, and instead it’s a dark seal. Oh well, no big deal. It’s also a bit less versatile than I expected. I definitely wouldn’t wear these in even a semi-formal setting. Jeans, chinos, and HBT, that’s pretty much all I would wear these with. That said, they look pretty awesome with all of the above.
View attachment 136189
I started out wearing them a couple hours a day, with a second layer of socks, and worked my way up. I’m now at the point where I can wear them all day with a single layer of trail socks. These are my longer-term thoughts:
View attachment 136191
- I’m told the waxed rough-out is easier to break in. When I got them out of the box, they were already pretty stiff. I’d HATE to imagine trying to break in a pair of their boots in Chromexcel. I think I made the right call going with waxed flesh.
- One downside of the cinnamon waxed flesh is the tongue: the process of the laces rubbing against the tongue as the boot flexes causes the waxy layer on the tongue to be removed very quickly, resulting in the tongue looking all kinds of chewed up, even though it’s structurally fine. This doesn’t damage the boots, and it isn’t really noticeable when you’re wearing them, so it isn’t a big deal, but I do somewhat wish that they had made the tongue out of a regular leather so it wouldn’t look so chewed up.
Overall, they’re really first-rate. I don’t have anything to compare them to, except my old Alden, but I’d absolutely buy from White’s again.
- They are very supportive, and pretty comfortable, but not in the way a pair of sneakers are, where it feels like you’re walking on a cloud. Instead, it feels like each part of my foot is getting the support it needs. I still don’t think I’ve broken them in yet, but they’re well on their way and getting a bit better each time.
coolhandluke
Well-Known Member
View attachment 136183
Here’s my contribution to the thread. For a while now, I’ve been thinking about trying a nice pair of boots, but I fence-sat for a while. While all the ones I’ve seen looked great, I’ve frankly never had a pair of boots that I considered particularly comfortable (and I’ve owned a pair of Alden Indy boots!) I love the idea of “heritage boots” but, I’d never had the experience of owning boots that I ENJOY wearing.
Nevertheless, because of the fine folks here and, even more, because of the boot community on youTube (especially “Rose Anvil,” “Bootlosophy,” “Stridewise,” and “Carl Murawski”), I was feeling the itch (no, it wasn’t athlete’s foot).
What I was looking for:
I watch a lot of youtube videos when I’m at home, so I saw reviews of a lot of different companies - Thursday, Grant Stone, Parkhurst, Viberg, some of the Indonesian brands, and of course the Pacific Northwest (PNW) brands in and around Spokane, WA. It was the PNW brands, like White’s and Nicks that caught my eye: everyone talked about the phenomenal construction - not only made in the USA, but lasted by hand. The PNW brands are famous for a couple of quirks in their construction: instead of the typical cork midsole and steel shank, they opt for several layers of leather in the sole and a leather shank - apparently they have some oak bark tanned leather that might as well be wood and they use that instead of steel. The multiple layers of leather will mould to your foot like the cork midsole. The difference is that cork can eventually start to move around to create uncomfortable hotspots, where a leather sole won’t. At least, that’s the theory.
- Great arch support. That’s apparently not very common with boots, but my doctor has told me I need it, and I wear inserts in most of my shoes. This is probably why Alden was a flop for me. I really wanted a pair of boots that wouldn’t require inserts.
- A streamlined look. I know that the bulbous toe of Iron Rangers is the way boots actually looked back in the day, but I don’t care about accuracy when it comes to boots. I’ve never really liked the rounded toe that you see on actual old-school boots, so Iron Rangers were a no-go.
- Preferably made in the USA, but at least made in a first-world nation. Where possible these days, I like to support our home-grown industries.
More importantly, at least for me, both Nicks and White’s are famous for having great arch support. These two makers are a bit on the expensive side, ranging from $500-700, but I really liked the look of them, and I’ve already had the experience (with jackets) of buying the budget option when you want the deluxe option, and having it not really scratch the itch. So I figured, “what the heck - get the boot you want the first time.” Besides, I’ve had good luck buying my leather jackets from the state of Washington.
So that effectively narrowed my search down to White’s MP service boot, and Nicks’ Americana. The Nicks were cheaper, but they had a longer wait time and the pictures made them look like they had that bulbous toe I don’t like. White’s seemed like exactly what I was looking for. Even better, they frequently have sales that will bring the cost of their service boot down to the same ballpark as Nicks.
I heard good things about their cinnamon waxed flesh (basically a Horween rough-out that’s been so packed with waxes and oils that the rough-out starts to resemble the surface of regular leather), and it looked great to me, so I went for that. After a bit of angsting over the size (tbh, I’m still not sure what my Brannock size is), I bought a pair in 11D in November and sat down for what I expected would be a wait of 2-4 months. Nope! They arrived in just about 4 weeks.
View attachment 136185
First Impressions:
View attachment 136187
- They smell fantastic. Stridewise had quipped that his MPs smell like a candle. That makes me think of Yankee Candle. I just think they smell intensely of LEATHER.
- White’s includes two pairs of laces - one pair of leather, and one pair of waxed cotton laces. I picked the waxed cotton, since I thought they’d be more versatile, and let me say, they are SERIOUSLY waxed. The first couple times I laced them up, they were shedding residue. That isn’t a complaint! I just took it as a sign that White’s isn’t messing around.
- The arch support is excellent. For this reason alone, I’d buy PNW again.
- The fit was great - I think it could stand to be a LITTLE more snug. I’ve heard some boot people recommend going a half size smaller and a size wider than White’s size guide recommends. I could probably have done that, but this is a good fit. And it’s got just enough room for me to wear a second pair of socks for breaking in, and for cold days. They advised me well.
- The cinnamon waxed flesh is darker than it looked on my computer screen. I was expecting what we would call a light seal brown, and instead it’s a dark seal. Oh well, no big deal. It’s also a bit less versatile than I expected. I definitely wouldn’t wear these in even a semi-formal setting. Jeans, chinos, and HBT, that’s pretty much all I would wear these with. That said, they look pretty awesome with all of the above.
View attachment 136189
I started out wearing them a couple hours a day, with a second layer of socks, and worked my way up. I’m now at the point where I can wear them all day with a single layer of trail socks. These are my longer-term thoughts:
View attachment 136191
- I’m told the waxed rough-out is easier to break in. When I got them out of the box, they were already pretty stiff. I’d HATE to imagine trying to break in a pair of their boots in Chromexcel. I think I made the right call going with waxed flesh.
- One downside of the cinnamon waxed flesh is the tongue: the process of the laces rubbing against the tongue as the boot flexes causes the waxy layer on the tongue to be removed very quickly, resulting in the tongue looking all kinds of chewed up, even though it’s structurally fine. This doesn’t damage the boots, and it isn’t really noticeable when you’re wearing them, so it isn’t a big deal, but I do somewhat wish that they had made the tongue out of a regular leather so it wouldn’t look so chewed up.
Overall, they’re really first-rate. I don’t have anything to compare them to, except my old Alden, but I’d absolutely buy from White’s again.
- They are very supportive, and pretty comfortable, but not in the way a pair of sneakers are, where it feels like you’re walking on a cloud. Instead, it feels like each part of my foot is getting the support it needs. I still don’t think I’ve broken them in yet, but they’re well on their way and getting a bit better each time.
Very nice Jan. I recently had the same epiphany and decided that I wanted my first pair of boots that weren't from a fashion brand. I really wanted a pair of White's, but was too apprehensive about dropping that much money when I couldn't try them on or know if my feet could stand up to a pair of heritage boots during the break in process. I actually ended up with Iron Rangers, mainly due to the fact that I was able to purchase a pair locally. Like you, I had no idea what my Brannock size is and finding the proper size was a bit of a pain. Mainly due to an incompetent sales staff at the first store that I visited. I typically wear 10.5 D in boots and dress shoes and 11 in athletic shoes.
After two exchanges, I ended up with a pair of Copper Rough and Tough Iron Rangers in 9.5 EE. I'm approximately 3 weeks in on the break-in process. Only wearing the boots indoors for a few hours after work each night and for most of the day on the weekends. The footbed is starting to soften up, but they still have a ways to go. Based on your foot issues, the IR's would have been a definite no-go for you. The toe box of the pair that I have aren't very bulbous looking. I was expecting the clown shoe look, but they're actually more trim looking on my feet than my RL roughouts. They're no White’s or Aldens, but they'll suffice.
BTW, I love the waxed cinnamon on your White’s. Looks like it should go great with your seal A2's and USN jackets.
mulceber
Moderator
It's funny, my experience was actually very similar. Got measured at a shoe store on a Brannock device and was told my measurement was 12C. I then figured, since more data is always a good thing, I'd go in to my local Red Wing store, and try on a a pair of Iron Rangers: 11D. (they were very nice boots, btw. I just probably would have needed to put insoles in them). I don't think most shoe stores are very good with the Brannock device, since 90% of the time, they're just using it to get a ballpark number before they have you try on sneakers.
Chandler
Well-Known Member
Then there are department stores with shoe departments that have the Brannocks laying around for any fool to use.
My RW store had a computerized scanner for sizing. I can't remember exactly what mine read, but I think it matched my 10.5 Brannock measurement closely.
Drzdave58
Well-Known Member
I’m the same size as you. I bought a pair of Whites c350 cruisers thru Bakers boots in a 10e and they fit perfect. Whites are amazing boots , try them sometime.
coolhandluke
Well-Known Member
That is a huge help. Thanks for the info Dave.
coolhandluke
Well-Known Member
Then there are department stores with shoe departments that have the Brannocks laying around for any fool to use.
My RW store had a computerized scanner for sizing. I can't remember exactly what mine read, but I think it matched my 10.5 Brannock measurement closely.
RW scanned my foot too, but I had to ask them to do so. Found out that my right foot is an E width while my left foot is standard D width. Something that I never knew previously and they didn't catch on the Brannock device. The size 10 Brannock measurement was spot on with the scanner sizing though.
Jeronimo Watchmaker
Well-Known Member
Red Wing / Iron Ranger
Chandler
Well-Known Member
Brand new?
Last edited:
Micawber
Well-Known Member
They are quite something!
Smithy
Well-Known Member
I'm with Steve they look to be beautifully made but a bit too Blake's 7 for me design-wise.
Jeronimo Watchmaker
Well-Known Member
Zcela nový?
Nice vintage look.
blackrat2
Well-Known Member
They look better with jeans rather than pictured as is…have been wanting a pair for sometime and finally took the plunge..take a while to get used to walking in them but now they are really comfy
@Jeronimo Watchmaker good luck breaking in the Redwings..they will look fantastic in time
@Jeronimo Watchmaker good luck breaking in the Redwings..they will look fantastic in time
Jeronimo Watchmaker
Well-Known Member
Chandler
Well-Known Member
Do/did you usually wear sneakers/trainers before trying out a heritage style boot? That could be why the RWs took getting used to.
I've worn all forms of boots regularly since I was in high school, so I didn't have trouble with the Iron Rangers out of the box. But yeah, broken in now they're even better.
