BK Victory Horse™ Hide

[virgil-hilts]

ok , thanks for your answer PLATON

 

[stevetfire]

Well which ever way you look at it ...that is a very good looking A2 to my eye,...there are some really good and valid points made by all parties ....and we are all chasing a rather elusive ghost.....it just depends how close you can get ....and how good your eyes are :lol: :lol:

 

[unclegrumpy]

I know the story of an original jacket from the veteran who sold it. He wore the jacket for 10 months only and yet the jacket is faded and all. This proves how the finishes of the time didn't last long.

This effect can be replicated today. In fact BK has already done it in some jackets sold previously.

BK has added the high quality of the leather in the mix, for 2 reasons. 1) to give more value for the price 2) to distinguish from its peers.

Your comments are well stated in this thread, and I think BK has come a very along way in the past few years accomplishing #1.

However, I think as far as #2, it looks more like you have upped the stakes in the same leather arms race. This not a bad thing, as a lot of people (customers) want....maybe demand...the qualities of the finest modern leathers. They don't want their jackets to wear or age, or for that matter really care if they look exactly like the originals actually did.....of which many probably have never seen.

There is a second category of customers, like me for example, who want their jackets to look and wear the exact same way of the originals did. That group may not be as large, but it is still largely unfulfilled in the marketplace.

You keep saying and saying in your marketing material and posts how you are satisfying the needs of both groups to absolute perfection. Which frankly, I don't think is possible with one leather.

IMO the current jacket maker who uncompromisingly nails it for the second category, will be the one who truly distinguishes themselves from their peers. The challenge is to find the holy grail and catch this "elusive ghost".

 

[2BM2K]

I think that evidence has shown that chrome tanned was widely used. Veg tanned leathers are supposed to last longer than chrome so I guess so rotten and cracked A-2 we see on ebay must have been chrome.

Gary Eastman has published copies of original leather specifications in his A-2 Identification Manual and the specification is for chrome tanning. I would be surprised if any A2 jacket leather was veg tanned.

I know the story of an original jacket from the veteran who sold it. He wore the jacket for 10 months only and yet the jacket is faded and all. This proves how the finishes of the time didn't last long.

10 months is a long time. If the vet wore the jacket when flying then it would have been exposed to UV at high altitude causing it to fade quite quickly.

 

[stevetfire]

I know the story of an original jacket from the veteran who sold it. He wore the jacket for 10 months only and yet the jacket is faded and all. This proves how the finishes of the time didn't last long.

This effect can be replicated today. In fact BK has already done it in some jackets sold previously.

BK has added the high quality of the leather in the mix, for 2 reasons. 1) to give more value for the price 2) to distinguish from its peers.

Your comments are well stated in this thread, and I think BK has come a very along way in the past few years accomplishing #1.

However, I think as far as #2, it looks more like you have upped the stakes in the same leather arms race. This not a bad thing, as a lot of people (customers) want....maybe demand...the qualities of the finest modern leathers. They don't want their jackets to wear or age, or for that matter really care if they look exactly like the originals actually did.....of which many probably have never seen.

There is a second category of customers, like me for example, who want their jackets to look and wear the exact same way of the originals did. That group may not be as large, but it is still largely unfulfilled in the marketplace.

You keep saying and saying in your marketing material and posts how you are satisfying the needs of both groups to absolute perfection. Which frankly, I don't think is possible with one leather.

IMO the current jacket maker who uncompromisingly nails it for the second category, will be the one who truly distinguishes themselves from their peers. The challenge is to find the holy grail and catch this "elusive ghost".

Well said

 

[Anonymous]

There is a second category of customers, like me for example, who want their jackets to look and wear the exact same way of the originals did. That group may not be as large, but it is still largely unfulfilled in the marketplace.

It is possible to make jackets that look and wear the exact same way of originals and I know how. It's going to be costly.
So the big question is, can you afford to pay it? Will you be there to pay it when BK releases it?
Even if you will, how many others will be there? Can BK rely on them to at least breakeven? It's too difficult to answer that.

You keep saying and saying in your marketing material and posts how you are satisfying the needs of both groups to absolute perfection. Which frankly, I don't think is possible with one leather.

True. Even originals that were made at the same time look so different. I can even distinguish some contracts just by looking at the leather used.

Again, we have to be realistic. It is possible to do it, i.e. have the exact same leather and color for each corresponding contract.

But who is going to pay for all that? Is there even a market for such thing?

 

[unclegrumpy]

It is possible to make jackets that look and wear the exact same way of originals and I know how. It's going to be costly. So the big question is, can you afford to pay it? Will you be there to pay it when BK releases it?
Even if you will, how many others will be there? Can BK rely on them to at least breakeven? It's too difficult to answer that.

Because you are reaching far beyond the scope of just discussing a particular type of leather, I don't think all you are really asking for can be adequately addressed in a short post.

That said, if we are only speaking about the leather, my question to you would be how much more money would it take?

If the leather in a $800 to $1000 jacket is already from the most expensive elite Italian craftsmen, then would say, $100 or $200 more do it?

If so, then we are really only talking about trading some of your current price advantage away for a highest degree of originality possible...correct?

And, if that is true and it can be accomplished for about the same price as the other guys are currently charging, I think you will quickly see the Buy and Sell section full of Eastmans and Goodwears, and your order que full.

As far as your questions about me, yes I can afford another jacket. But do I care about being the first guy to get one, or your test subject, no.

I have already been one of the guinea pigs in this jacket game several times over, and am pretty happy with what I currently have. However, that said, if someone finally proves they have really nailed it, I will be in line with the rest of the boys....just farther back.

 

[leper-colony]

for the price you pay, what do you prefer to get? the cheapo/crapola leather?
or the good stuff?

They can be the same thing if accurate to an original jacket.

 

[Top-Notcher]

Hi Platon ,

i`m a owner of a BK Dubow 1755 which has nice grainy leather,how much is the differnce to the victory horse leather?

Thanks Martin

 

[Anonymous]

Just got promoted to General

 

[CBI]

that jacket looks great - congratulations!!!!

As a wearer though, I would loose the stars, wearing rank can get you into some trouble. I have seen this happen and have heard of it happening many times!

 

[Anonymous]

thanks
can make it without

 

[CBI]

yes, of course.

Actually those are nice LOOKING stars you added

 

[Anonymous]

yeah thanks,
custom made to match the originals

 

[damienweaver]

This is the current offering of Victory Seal or Russet? Also, suggestion for the website: state which hide is shown in the images. Great work!

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Looks great. I hear what CBI is saying, but this is a tribute to the General. Technically, you would have to apply your own name along with the rank to be breaking any rules I think. Also, The AAF and CBI insignia are obsolete. When leaving The USAF, we were told that you could wear your fatigues with your name or the U.S. Air Force tape, but not both together. Either could be worn with unit patches, but your name or USAF must be removed.

In over a decade, I haven't had one instance reported about trouble wearing WW2 insignia in any capacity. But just yesterday, an Ebayer from France asked this about my leather pilot wings - " wearing the badge of a fighter or bomber pilot? " I answered " yes, the design is obsolete from WW2 " Nothing back from him yet. But I'll stand behind the fact that this is probably one of the only ways left these days that would give a younger generation any clue about WW2 history. And it's OK until someone shows me some kind of official regulation stating otherwise. If there is one, then it should be very specific to obsolete WW2 insignia as a tribute and not as stolen valor.

 

[Anonymous]

I think it is OK to wear badges as long as you are not trying to pass for someone you are not and as long as you do not disgrace the uniforms. I wouldn't wear this jacket to go to the pub but I would wear it at Duxford or at similar events and at any other places and where they honor the war heroes.

 

[CBI]

Yes, I don't have issues with the insignias but RANK is present day thing and its something that people seem sensitive about.

An issue could be made with the insignias as well but IMO, I would give those a pass.

This has been covered before on other threads.

Main thing is that BK jackets are really looking great these days.

Congrats again!

 

[a2jacketpatches]

I think it is OK to wear badges as long as you are not trying to pass for someone you are not and as long as you do not disgrace the uniforms. I wouldn't wear this jacket to go to the pub but I would wear it at Duxford or at similar events and at any other places and where they honor the war heroes.

Agreed, there is a time and a place for this jacket, otherwise every once in a blue moon you'll bump into someone who's just a little too opinionated and concerned.

 

[FlyingYankee]

Does anyone know if enlisted insignia was painted on an A-2. I am currently an E-8 in the Air Force and would like to do this in a historically correct tasteful manner.