B-17 Nine-O-Nine just crashed!!!!

[Lorenzo_l]

Would there be a black box fitted?

Not likely on an old warbird.

 

[Steve27752]

Not likely on an old warbird.

I thought as it carried paying passengers it may need one.

 

[Lorenzo_l]

I thought as it carried paying passengers it may need one.

Warbirds carrying paying passengers on sightseeing flights do so under some sort of special dispensation and do not operate under the same rules as scheduled commercial flights. I do not know the details of such a dispensation, but I doubt that it includes fitting cockpit voice or flight data recorders. But I might be wrong on this one...

 

[Flightengineer]

I think there are no recorders.
If someone from the crew survived is the only chance to know the truth and reason IMHO. I agree with Greg - the failure of one engine would not be the cause, as is usually the case in aviation, there are probably several of them. The plane was badly burned, let's hope that the investigation will establish the cause.

 

[Pilot]

First, my sympathies and condolences to all affected.

Black boxes are only mandatory if its a commercial aircraft and or if it has more than 20 seats ( pe private jets or small passenger planes).
We had a big issue on this when one of our soccer player crashed ( in a PA-46 Malibu) in the Channel during a commuting flight ( France-England) a few months ago.

 

[Flightengineer]

Black boxes are only mandatory if its a commercial aircraft and or if it has more than 20 seats ( pe private jets or small passenger planes).
We had a big issue on this when one of our soccer player crashed ( in a Malibu) in the Channel during a commuting flight ( France-England) a few months ago.

Sure, Brice. Even expensive business jets there is not always FDR onboard.
In addition, I think it would be a great difficulty to adapt modern FDRs to the systems of such an old aircraft as the B-17, there will be many difficult problems with sensors to get current information for recording from old WW2 devices (if at all possible).
As far as I know, all such surviving and airworthiness aircraft (C-47s, B-17s, B-25s and others like that) have no recorders.
Flights wit pax onboard on this warbirds are usually registered as flights of members (previously people must become members of the aircraft's support society or something the like it) and this is not considered commercial passengers transportation (according to ICAO rules).
That is how my beloved Dutch Princess Amalia C-47 PH-PBA flies. To ride, you pay for a ticket, but this is not a flight ticket, but a subsidy for plane's maintaining from member.

 

[Edward]

Preliminary

CNN “We know that the crew circled back to Runway 6 and attempted to land on Runway 6,” she said. “They impacted the instrument landing system stanchions, the plane veered to the right, crossed over a grassy area, crossed over the taxiway and impacted a de-icing facility.”

 

[Micawber]

Condolences to those that have perished

Preliminary

CNN “We know that the crew circled back to Runway 6 and attempted to land on Runway 6,” she said. “They impacted the instrument landing system stanchions, the plane veered to the right, crossed over a grassy area, crossed over the taxiway and impacted a de-icing facility.”

As usual FB is awash with conjecture and rumour, thank you for passing on factual material. The loss of the aircraft is sad, the loss of life and injuries is tragic.

My wife and I and our then six month old son taken over 20 years ago just after we attended one of the 91st BGMA reunions. The replica 909 is in our thoughts today.

 

[jeremiah]

Sad news indeed.
juat a little on the media. Don’t think they have all the facts either. I pulled a guy out of a home built he crashed about 18 years ago.
before the ambulances came my wife overheard quite a few stories breaking in the local news channel/radio.
All of which were wrong.
Even when the media arrives on scene their “facts” are based off of witnesses and what those witnesses have interpreted Happened. Let’s wait for the investigation report that will follow.
Only people who know exactly what happened are sadly passed.

 

[Skyhawk]

We don't know the details, maybe they didn't have the opportunity to land ahead , who knows what was on the ground in front of them.

Yes it will be interesting to see the report to see what happened. My heart sure goes out to the people involved.

I had a chunk of manifold metal break off and lodge in the exhaust of a Piper Cherokee shortly after take off. This was at Honolulu International. At the time I had no idea what was happening. I got close to 1200 feet when there was a loss of power. It would not climb and had to be full throttle to maintain altitude. I requested immediate landing and they cleared me. I really REALLY did not want to pull back the power to descend to the runway but I had to land, so down I went. Thankfully to a soft landing.

A lot of stuff can happen up there. The choices you make in the moments after a situation arises, can have a profound effect on the outcome.

 

[Edward]

Authorities have confirmed that David Broderick, 56, of West Springfield, Mass., died in the crash. He worked at Collins Aerospace in Windsor Locks.
An additional six people are presumed dead:

• Pilot Ernest “Mac” McCauley, 75, of Long Beach, Calif.
• Co-pilot Michael Foster, 71, of Jacksonville, Fla.
• Gary Mazzone, 66, of the Broad Brooks section of East Windsor
• James Robert, 48, of Ludlow, Mass.
• Robert Riddell, 59, of East Granby
• Robert Rubner, 64, of Tolland

The seven people injured in the crash were:

• Andy Barrett, 36, of South Hadley, Mass.
• Linda Schmidt, 62, of Suffield
• Tom Schmidt, 62, of Suffield
• Joseph “JT” Huber, 48, of the Tarriffville section of Simsbury
• James Traficante, 54, of Simsbury
• Flight engineer Mitchell Melton, 34, of Dalehart, Texas
• Andrew Sullivan28, of Enfield, who works at the airport

Hartford Hospital officials said Thursday that the hospital received six of those injured in the crash. By Wednesday evening, three of the patients had been released, officials said. Two others were transferred to the Connecticut Burn Center at Bridgeport Hospital, and one person was still at Hartford Hospital as of Thursday afternoon.
Although the names of all involved have now been released, details are still emerging about those people’s lives. Several of the families and friends of the crash victims have told the Courant about their loved ones.

https://www.courant.com/breaking-ne...HlaehnBeSHKyr3g8OdC8y2fYG-q6vHrlb3yawWo59fWLM

 

[Flightengineer]

During 20 years I had to return two times immediately after take off, and this always happened in time deficite. So I agree with Jay about choices you make in the moments after a situation arises.
The problems/fails during take off and climb are usually the most unpleasant and fast growing and need fast desigions, in my experience.
The absence of pilots in survived list reduces the chances of finding out what really happened.
May God accept the souls of the dead and help the survivors quick recover.
For all flying - have a safe flights.

 

[dujardin]

so sad news - what a tragedy

RIP

 

[Clark J]

I listened to the ATC conversation between Mac and the tower and Mac sounded very calm wasn't real demanding of getting on the ground asap but then another voice suggested to get down.Even in a right turn and losing #4 hell the didn't have any real weight seems to me that old girl could have easily flown on 3 engines.My brother a life long pilot and Vietnam helicopter pilot/ instructor at Mother Rucker found the flight on a web site and he didn't see anything that that lead him to think it would end this way.

 

[Edward]

I listened to the ATC conversation between Mac and the tower and Mac sounded very calm wasn't real demanding of getting on the ground asap but then another voice suggested to get down.Even in a right turn and losing #4 hell the didn't have any real weight seems to me that old girl could have easily flown on 3 engines.My brother a life long pilot and Vietnam helicopter pilot/ instructor at Mother Rucker found the flight on a web site and he didn't see anything that that lead him to think it would end this way.

the issue with the #4 engine was the reason for their return to the runway but not necessarily the reason for the accident. preliminary information is that they the aircraft came in low, touched down 1,000 feet short of the runway and clipped the Instrument Landing System (ILS) antenna array, veered to the right off the runway across a grassy area and taxiway, and then crashed into a de-icing facility. my assumption (and I know I cannot assume or presume) is if they hadn't clipped the ILS antenna Array perhaps it would have been a better outcome?... obviously the official NTSB report is needed and we many not ever know the full reasons for loss of control. looks to me like a series of events and not just the engine problem lead to the outcome.

 

[Otter]

Over on airliners.net they have been discussing the preliminary findings.
Loss of power on both no.3 and 4 engines. Fuel contamination has been ruled out.
There is also a fundraiser to help pay the medical costs of the Flight Engineer who was quite badly injured.

 

[Edward]

Over on airliners.net they have been discussing the preliminary findings.
Loss of power on both no.3 and 4 engines. Fuel contamination has been ruled out.
There is also a fundraiser to help pay the medical costs of the Flight Engineer who was quite badly injured.

Wow both number three and four... which would definitely cause the wing to drop which I guess would explain why they said they hit some stuff as it came down to the runway… So unfortunate

 

[Otter]

Not a pilot, but I am guessing 2 out on one side and low altitude makes things pretty uncontrollable.