Aero Real Deal cuff length + scars/cracks

[PENSACOLA CVT-16]

Re: Aero Real Deal - updated with pics!

BTW, what do you think of the fit?

Well there's a lot of different opinions here about fit.

But to my eyes, it's being worn oversized, and because of this it didn't need the extra lengths added. With the shoulders dropped, it's going to sit lower anyway, so being extra long in the body, it kind of loses some of it's A-2ness.

I agree with "deeb7" about the "A-2ness" aspect...

and it's going to drape/relax/lengthen a little more as it breaks-in.

However, enjoy your new jacket.

 

[Swedish_Pilot]

However, enjoy your new jacket.

Thanks, I will!

In case it "grows out of me", I guess it's a good excuse to buy another one...

But were all originals really fitting their owners in a trim, short and square way?
I mean couldn't it have been the case sometimes that a service man between the sizes got a too big jacket (or the opposite), thus rendering an oversized or really snug and trim look...?

Because if I've understood you right, you find the fit of the jacket oversized, or is it that you think the jacket itself lacks the proper squareness and shortness?

/S_P

 

[Good Wear Fan]

However, enjoy your new jacket.

Thanks, I will!

In case it "grows out of me", I guess it's a good excuse to buy another one...

But were all originals really fitting their owners in a trim, short and square way?
I mean couldn't it have been the case sometimes that a service man between the sizes got a too big jacket (or the opposite), thus rendering an oversized or really snug and trim look...?

Because if I've understood you right, you find the fit of the jacket oversized, or is it that you think the jacket itself lacks the proper squareness and shortness?

/S_P

Your RD is very nice ,by the looks from your photos the A-2 looks two sizes larger than you.Rain is a good thing for break in for HH.Wear it in good health.

 

[bfrench]

In case it "grows out of me", I guess it's a good excuse to buy another one...

But were all originals really fitting their owners in a trim, short and square way?
I mean couldn't it have been the case sometimes that a service man between the sizes got a too big jacket (or the opposite), thus rendering an oversized or really snug and trim look...?

Because if I've understood you right, you find the fit of the jacket oversized, or is it that you think the jacket itself lacks the proper squareness and shortness?

/S_P

Hi, SP,

Great jacket and a great fit - a lot of the guys don't realize the dreaded bare back from a short jacket on a cold winter's morning - a jacket a n inch or so longer makes it much more usable on a -20º C morning.

Here's a pic I have of an original which looks to be a lot longer than yours.

I'm guessing a Bronco or United Skeeplined with the beveled corners and looks a lot like your fit.

Bill Frtench

 

[Vcruiser]

Re: Aero Real Deal - updated with pics!

BTW, what do you think of the fit?
/S_P

Hi Swedish_Pilot
Well...by the pics the Aero seems to be a couple sizes larger and much longer than most would consider. A WW2 fit would most often be much trimmer and shorter. Evidentually that's what you wanted,though...so it should serve you well.
Van

 

[deeb7]

Here's a pic I have of an original which looks to be a lot longer than yours.

Bill Frtench

Bill, that one looks to be an okay fit, and certainly doesn't appear longer.

It's not zipped up, the guy's wearing high waisted trousers, and the picture is cropped because he's standing on a box.

 

[Swedish_Pilot]

Hi, SP,

Great jacket and a great fit - a lot of the guys don't realize the dreaded bare back from a short jacket on a cold winter's morning - a jacket a n inch or so longer makes it much more usable on a -20º C morning.

Here's a pic I have of an original which looks to be a lot longer than yours.

I'm guessing a Bronco or United Skeeplined with the beveled corners and looks a lot like your fit.

Bill Frtench

Hi bfrench!
Thanks for the comments and the pic! I agree with you, that guy seems to be wearing an “oversized” jacket, at least according to the general idea of an optimal fit in this forum.

I absolutely think that the winter climate in Scandinavia and Canada (which I guess can be quite similar) isn’t nice for bare backs…

Talking about fit (which I guess is a very subjective subject and has been discussed over and over in this forum), I’ve gathered some personal thoughts in a quite long post (sorry!) below.

Warning! The following reflections are my personal, subjective ones and it’s not my intention to offend anyone. It should also be understood that they are written with the glimpse in the eye too.

I think one should consider the purpose of wearing a flight jacket.

1) Is it renacting or the look-alike thing? Then I absolutely buy the arguments that the jacket should be at least 99.99999% genuine with every stitch in the right place etc (as all other garments, shoes, equipments etc.).
But how about the body type then? I guess most service men of that era were less than 6’ tall, with quite different physique than today. Proportionally I guess a genuine A-2 will look different on a guy like me (6’4” with a well developed, muscular athletic body constitution, not the ultra slim James Stewart type of tall guy), than on a standard WW2 pilot.
With well developed chest and shoulders (or with a less athletic, “well developed” belly) a very trim and short jacket looks more like a leather corset than a jacket in my eyes, especially when worn with today’s normal to low waist trousers.
Conclusion, I will never look close to a WW2 pilot even if I would spend my last dimes on an ultra realistic GW jacket or an original (if there are any originals available in my size). The fit won’t simply be the same, and thus not the appearance either.

2) Is it to have a nice WW2 jacket to honour those who participated, and to feel the spirit of real aviation, history etc.? Then I guess the most important thing is that you like the fit of the jacket and the look of it. What brings the spirit is usually up to your own perception and sense of nostalgia. Personally I can deal with some historical inaccuracies, just to wear spray colored HH is nice compared to the even colored hides of today.

3) Is it to use when flying (+ question 1 or 2)? For me, as a pilot, it is very important to sit confortable and be able to reach all instruments etc. without fearing to crack the seams of a leather corset. As I’ve understood from previous threads, many WW2 pilots also preferred from an ergonomical point of view, the cloth jacket (B15?) that replaced the A-2. Maybe because some pilots received very trim leather jackets?
Personally I hate the sensation (when flying general aviation planes) when you litteraly crawl into the cold cockpit of a Piper PA-28, and the short A-2 pulls up your shirt, leaving you with a bear back and stomach, exposed to the cold chair and seat belt…

I guess the list of questions could be made much longer, everyone have their own perceptions, ideals etc. of how a true A-2 should look like and how it should be used. But the conclusion of this long post is that I’m not buying the argument that true A-2ness should simply be based on pictures of WW2 pilots. It’s far more complex than that, and will in all cases point to a quite subjective opinion.

Best regards,
/S_P

 

[rich]

Subjective it is, nicely put. With regard to the WW2 fit, would it have been the case that a close fitting jacket would be more
necessary due to all the paraphernalia that needed to be worn on top of the jacket - mae west, parachute harness etc. The period photos we tend to see feature them mostly being worn on the ground, sans flying gear.
I don't know if it's true, but when airborne I imagine you'd have wanted an A2 close and snug rather than lose fitting? Somebody here will know!
Not having to wear this type of jacket in a military situation might make this close fit less necessary, maybe we expect too much from a design that was never really intended for our civilian lifestyle?
Now, I've set them up for you, fire away.............

 

[Swedish_Pilot]

Subjective it is, nicely put. With regard to the WW2 fit, would it have been the case that a close fitting jacket would be more
necessary due to all the paraphernalia that needed to be worn on top of the jacket - mae west, parachute harness etc. The period photos we tend to see feature them mostly being worn on the ground, sans flying gear.
I don't know if it's true, but when airborne I imagine you'd have wanted an A2 close and snug rather than lose fitting? Somebody here will know!
Not having to wear this type of jacket in a military situation might make this close fit less necessary, maybe we expect too much from a design that was never really intended for our civilian lifestyle?
Now, I've set them up for you, fire away.............

...Fox 2

I guess you have a point in that too.

Weren't the cockpits of that era quite small in general? As far as I know were especially the British (Spitfire...) and the German (Me 109...) cockpits extra tight.

I remember once seeing a contemporary made side-by-side comparison of the Spitfire and the Me 109 performed by a British fighter pilot. He measured 185 cm (approx. 6'2.79"), just wearing a modern flight suit and he felt almost claustrophobic in the two cockpits. Especially with the Me 109's rigid canopy, which must have been a nightmare in case of an upside-down landing...

/S_P

 

[Anonymous]

Pardon me I didn't have time to read the whole thread but here's my views.
The Aero jacket exhibits some extreme tunneling.
The jacket in black and white photo is not long. The officer wears his pants higher than we do today cause that's how it was back then. That makes the jacket appear longer.

 

[Robman]

The aero will look fine once it's broken in.

The original photo shows an A2 that is quite long but it appears to be a Bronco which apparently had a longer torso than many.

I have seen a front photo of the gentleman in the picture (I believe he was Major Gale "Bucky" Clevan?? of the 100th BG??) and the photo shows the bottom of his jacket coming down past his "privates" -- no pun intended.

If a person needed a certain size and was long-legged this occurred when viewing the original pictures which I think shows the majority of guys wore them "comfortably" rather than skin-tight.

When folks order a jacket and it's snug with just a t-shirt on underneath it doesn't look "real" in my eyes.