1931 GOLDSMITH A-2 Limited Edition of 25

[33-1729]

It’s seems the V505 is a jacket we don’t discuss much . Does anyone here own one? I’d really like to know more about the history and makers of this variation of A2 jacket.

I contacted the State Library of Victoria about a year ago to see if they would be able to identify the V505 maker. In short, "no". They have a lead, but more like a needle in a haystack. An excerpt of their response is below...

Unfortunately I have been unable to connect any of the listed odes to any factory, product or tender that might suggest a manufacturer. Given the apparel is of a military nature it would most likely have been requisitioned or tendered out by the Commonwealth Government but the codes do not appear in any relevant context in the Commonwealth, Victorian or NSW government gazettes.

None of our reference works on Australian military uniforms give any indication of individual codes of any description.

I have no doubt there will be a list of relevant codes somewhere in the National Archives of Australia but how you would go about finding it is somewhat of a puzzle. It is not indexed (but relatively few such documents would be) individually and various searching doesn't reveal any blindingly obvious series of documents.

I originally understood the "V" to mean of Victoria state manufacture, but am no longer certain after seeing the State Library of Victoria response. At this point we don't know who made it, why it was made, how many were made or for whom it was made. There is, at least, one period picture of an American wearing one (above in post #172). The paper trail starts in Australia, but no one has started that path yet.

It possibly has a collar stand construction made of cowhide(?) using a khaki twill lining. I recall from an old post that Roughwear (Andrew) may own one, so hopefully he can add more.

 

[SuinBruin]

Maybe there's a USAAF order or contract for the V-505 jackets in the American archives. Just spitballing here, I appreciate the legwork you've put in.

 

[2BM2K]

If the jacket was ordered by the US gov for the USAAF then there would be no reason for there to be any Commonwealth or Australian records for it.

 

[Technonut2112]

I ran this Goldsmith pic through a free online colorizer, and it came up with a darker jacket, except for a bit of russet around the collar, and stomach. The collar loop and button are clearly visible. I can't remember where / when this one was taken... Couldn't have been long before 'Hap' stitched his name-tag above the pocket.

 

[Persimmon]

What is the “letter” wrap a round on his left arm ?

 

[2BM2K]

Interesting photo with Billy Mitchell but have been unable to find any information about it. The colourising hasn't
worked properly as the arm band does not have a colour. Appears to read CA or GA.

Found another V505 and have placed it againest the Aero test jacket for comparison.

The V505 is a mystery that only documentary evidence can solve.

 

[Technonut2112]

Interesting photo with Billy Mitchell

The pic was tagged by wherever I grabbed it as being 'Hap' Arnold, and referenced the Goldsmith. It appears to be the same Goldsmith before 'Hap' stitched his name tag above the pocket.

 

[2BM2K]

It will be the same jacket, finding a date for the photo would be great.

 

[Technonut2112]

Looking at the test jacket again above... When Aero scales the pockets down, and gets the flap scallops right, everything else looks great to me. Collar, / the way that the collar is attached into the wind flap a bit / slender A-1 style sleeves / shoulder seam / epaulet placement / pocket spacing-height /narrow wind flap width, all in order from what I see. Rotated sleeves, and wide top stitching on the side seams will be icing on the cake if implemented IMO..

 

[Grant]

The photo was taken after Billy resigned from the US Army, February 1, 1926 and became a civilian.
The photo and description are on display at a small Billy Mitchell gallery/museum at Mitchell Field, Milwaukee, WI.

https://www.mitchellgallery.org/

 

[Skyhawk]

I ran this Goldsmith pic through a free online colorizer, and it came up with a darker jacket, except for a bit of russet around the collar, and stomach. The collar loop and button are clearly visible. I can't remember where / when this one was taken... Couldn't have been long before 'Hap' stitched his name-tag above the pocket.

View attachment 9113

The thing about colorization is that it can change depending on which original photo is used. This one has the jacket appearing lighter in color, and Berry knits? I doubt it...LOL! :

One thing is for sure though, and the colorizer picked this up, the Goldsmith is lighter in color than the other two A-2's in this photo. I believe that would negate the Seal color theory. I believe the color fell somewhere between the Chocolate / Chestnut color of the A-1's and the lighter russet of the other early A-2's.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

I ran this Goldsmith pic through a free online colorizer, and it came up with a darker jacket, except for a bit of russet around the collar, and stomach. The collar loop and button are clearly visible. I can't remember where / when this one was taken... Couldn't have been long before 'Hap' stitched his name-tag above the pocket.

View attachment 9113

No sign to suggest rotated sleeves on this one
Also the colouring looks far more natural in Techno's pic that the other colourised pic with the heavy pink flooding, I know these strides were knows as "pinks" but those on the left look really embarassed :>)

Also
1st one, slightly darker knit than the leather
2nd one, Aero Rust knit, lighter than the leather

 

[Geeboo]

I think the collar shape & size is so much different in the original from Ken's prototype.
Fact or flattery: Admit Ken's work has been seriously put together - of course. But it surely lacks the "wow" factor to my blur eye - 65%-70% alike to original photo at this stage, at most.

 

[Technonut2112]

I think the collar shape & size is so much different in the original from Ken's prototype.

Perhaps new like it is, but I'm imagining the collar on the Aero worn, spread-out, and pushed-in like 'Haps', and I think it would be damn close. One wouldn't be able to tell for sure unless Aero's was spread-out, and pushed-in like the pic..

 

[Geeboo]

The shape & size of the collar is Way beyond my own acceptable standard. Size of pocket as well. Flap to improve as mentioned
Put it this way, it has buttoned flap, right epp, etc, etc. But it just do not look like the photo - the flare I call it.
Put it in another way, a 120's super wool suit, fully pricked, full canvas, all horn buttons, real working sleeves button holes,etc, etc, all are there for some so call " high end" tailors, the suit JUST does not look good.

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

I think the collar shape & size is so much different in the original from Ken's prototype.
Fact or flattery: Admit Ken's work has been seriously put together - of course. But it surely lacks the "wow" factor to my blur eye - 65%-70% alike to original photo at this stage, at most.

75%/80% I'd have said, the length, pocket position, pocket size and to a small extent, the pocket flap shape all needed modification. Collar is perfect
This has all been done across the full spectrum of pattern sizes ready for production, we've also done a set of rotated sleeves (Belt & Braces) not that I expect they'll be needed .............but we aren't going to make another sample as we don't want to dilute the "25" by having a bunch of test jackets floating around

 

[Geeboo]

View attachment 9117

The collar is the major "flaw", IMO - believe it or not
I don't know if U buy this: the turnaround should be about 1/2 of the pocket's width ~7cm -7.5cm - my wild guess. The collar perimeter of the photo shows it is larger than "normal"
P.S. compare the ratio of the yellow line & the orange line to figure out how large is the collar's turnaround. Also noted I have enlarged the collar in my sample in the 3rd trial - I am just an amateur, Ken.

 

[2BM2K]

No sign to suggest rotated sleeves on this one

This photograph is small, low definition and certainly not good enough to rely on for detailed analysis.

I ran this Goldsmith pic through a free online colorizer, and it came up with a darker jacket

The colouriser is only a crude tool, seems to identify areas and picks nearest colour. Not intended to identify a specific colour
but to give the photo a coloured look.

 

[Technonut2112]

Hmmmmm... Looks like the Aero's collar should be a bit wider to be 'correct' in comparison to the pics. And a cloth scale mock-up of the jacket as well.. Nice work Geeboo!

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

One collar is hanging open above a half closed zipper, the other is zipped right up to the neck allowing no spread and a fair % of the leather collar is standing up above the collar stand so isn't in your measurements