airfrogusmc
Well-Known Member
Nice great looking jacket!!!!
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New GW Rough Wear 1401 P
- Thread starter saucerfiend
- Start date
herk115
Active Member
HHjackets said:
About ten years ago I let a friend convince me that the Rough Wear was the definitive A-2 jacket. After experience with three 1401 repros (two ELC and one Perrone), and one vintage, I have reached the following conclusions: 1) the Rough Wear collar, whether original or repro, is now officially the "collar from hell;" 2) The Rough Wear A-2 is NOT the "definitive" A-2, and 3) There is NO definitive A-2, as no two of these things looked alike.
Okay...I was just venting. I'm off the soapbox now.
Please help me. Which contract (whether reproduced by GW or ELC) offers the lowest, flattest collar? I don't care if the collar circumference is tight or loose, though I have a preference for loose.
Cheers,
Larry
The debate over whether one likes or dislikes the RW collar will never a reach a satisfactory resolution as it comes down to personal preferences. There are plenty of different contracts out there which John reproduces superbly so everyone can buy the A2 with the collar design they prefer.
saucerfiend
Well-Known Member
Roughwear said:
Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Brian,
The jacket and fit look great. Here is the pic Mr. Chapman sent me before he shipped me my DuBow.
Scott
The jacket and fit look great. Here is the pic Mr. Chapman sent me before he shipped me my DuBow.
Scott
saucerfiend said:Thought I'd post this pic of my 1401 P from JC, before he sent it to me. I love this shot! I call it: "Perfection, from the masters workbench". I actually use this pic for my computers desktop image. Hope you enjoy!
Brian
saucerfiend
Well-Known Member
Scott,
That looks great! I'm sure you're enjoying it. Give me a call if you like, to chat. 732 297-0697 in NJ. Talk to you soon.
Brian
That looks great! I'm sure you're enjoying it. Give me a call if you like, to chat. 732 297-0697 in NJ. Talk to you soon.
Brian
Roughwear said:
i gave an honest opinion that i don't like the way the collar is made/looks on saucerfiend's roughwear jacket.
it may be because his 'neck is long and slender, making the neck hole appear bigger', in which case this werber looks ok:
it may be because the way the collar is made, in which case it should look like this, there is no 'clowning' here:
rather than like this:
there is a difference between collar design and collar size, and this is what is meant by 'clown collar' on a roughwear:
herk115
Active Member
HHjackets said:
I think all of those collars look good (in fact, in the cases presented, they all have "the look"). It's just that I personally don't like the Roughwear because it's not for me. The wind flap sticks up too high and pokes me in the neck, the collar is asymmetrical, and it is out of proportion with the rest of the jacket because it sticks up way too high. The first reason is practical; but the last two are purely aesthetic and therefore subjective. If someone likes the RW collor, by all means buy one and wear it.
Roughwear said:
you didn't read my post properly, you should read it again to see my point and what it is that im trying to say.
the roughwear collar looks fine if done correctly, i posted a photo of John with one of his 1401 roughwear and said this one looks good, didn't i? but because of your fixation with goodwear jackets you can't tell the difference if one doesn't look right.
Cobblers161
Well-Known Member
The cut of the collar is fine, Saucerfiends just sits a little differently to the one of JC you posted. To make matters worse, for your good self at least, mine sits differently to both but only because I've squished it flat.
Down to way it's been worn, treated, mistreated, not the cut.
Fantastic looking jackets IMHO!
Down to way it's been worn, treated, mistreated, not the cut.
Fantastic looking jackets IMHO!
Persimmon
Well-Known Member
HHjackets said:
So in summary I believe you are saying that John Chapman is just a normal human being and not the "god" of all A2 repro jacket makers in that he can have an off day occasionally (seldom !!) and make a less than perfect jacket to the general to the pattern specification.
Personally I have seen Goodwear jackets that were average enough in my mind to let them be sold by me so i cannot disagree to that reasoning.
I do think in this case its just the way the collar is lying at this moment and wear and tear will do a lot to change it.
Equally beauty is in the eye of the beholder and that wil never ever change.
Thankfully too.
Alan
johnwayne
Well-Known Member
Just to add my 2 pennyworth, my only experience of the 1401 is an ELC repro I have and in all honesty I cant say its my favourite! Either studded or unstudded (when it doesnt lay flat!) I'm not a fan of the collarstand - yes I fully accept that had I wore it more or mistreated it in some way it may look nicer to my eye but I do like/prefer a lay flat style and infact rarely stud my collars up for that very reason. That's why I dont wear the 1401 much if at all!!! I did at one point question Gary if the collar was mis-cut but I never got a response and I now don't believe it is and that how it's meant to be.
This topic has been covered previously and it really is subjective but when you pay a lot of money and then you're not happy with how it looks it is very disappointing - to that end I possibly would not buy a new 'collarstand' repro - at least secondhand you get an idea of wear and the look you can expect. To me, the collar is integral to look of and coolness of an A2 - that's why I so like Dubow's, Donigers and for opposing reason, Perry's (of which I'll get one, one day). Cobblers does look pretty much how it should be but thats just IMHO!!
But anyone can beg (any pay) to differ if they wish!!!!
Cheers
Wayne
This topic has been covered previously and it really is subjective but when you pay a lot of money and then you're not happy with how it looks it is very disappointing - to that end I possibly would not buy a new 'collarstand' repro - at least secondhand you get an idea of wear and the look you can expect. To me, the collar is integral to look of and coolness of an A2 - that's why I so like Dubow's, Donigers and for opposing reason, Perry's (of which I'll get one, one day). Cobblers does look pretty much how it should be but thats just IMHO!!
But anyone can beg (any pay) to differ if they wish!!!!
Cheers
Wayne
Persimmon
Well-Known Member
Cobblers161 said:The cut of the collar is fine, Saucerfiends just sits a little differently to the one of JC you posted. To make matters worse, for your good self at least, mine sits differently to both but only because I've squished it flat.
Down to way it's been worn, treated, mistreated, not the cut.
Fantastic looking jackets IMHO!
Those jackets look fantastic.
And they look the business on you.
If your ever tempted to sell though let me know
I am in the queue !!
A
Anonymous
Guest
Persy:
I had a bad feeling when someone mentioned "clown collar"! None of the photos in this whole thread show a real clown collar a la' 1990's Eastman or many a current RMNZ. The clown collar is high- 3 1/4" sometimes and it circles around the neck in a distinctive cone. It looks kinda like an original Roughwear but is not actually. John Chapman IS currently the "god" of all repro jacket makers- his pattern is correct when compared to originals. I can guarantee you that a stitch by stitch comparison or a mm by mm comparison of any current Goodwear Roughwear comp[ared to an original will bear this out. Not opinion- fact. He also get all the other things no other company gets close to- seam allowances, the little leather tabs and other "secret' details that add up to the jacket looking original. If one photo on one forum thread doesn't look right it is because of the model (most of us seem to be old duffers) or photgraphy. The current Goodwear pattern is right on and the older ones are more accurate than competitor's jackets made today! I am a Roughwear maniac and can (later when I'm not at work) help illustrate this with photos...
I had a bad feeling when someone mentioned "clown collar"! None of the photos in this whole thread show a real clown collar a la' 1990's Eastman or many a current RMNZ. The clown collar is high- 3 1/4" sometimes and it circles around the neck in a distinctive cone. It looks kinda like an original Roughwear but is not actually. John Chapman IS currently the "god" of all repro jacket makers- his pattern is correct when compared to originals. I can guarantee you that a stitch by stitch comparison or a mm by mm comparison of any current Goodwear Roughwear comp[ared to an original will bear this out. Not opinion- fact. He also get all the other things no other company gets close to- seam allowances, the little leather tabs and other "secret' details that add up to the jacket looking original. If one photo on one forum thread doesn't look right it is because of the model (most of us seem to be old duffers) or photgraphy. The current Goodwear pattern is right on and the older ones are more accurate than competitor's jackets made today! I am a Roughwear maniac and can (later when I'm not at work) help illustrate this with photos...
