ELC Anj-4 fleece depth ?

[LtGustl]

Hello,

here are the measurements of my AN-J-4 jackets fleece:

torso 15mm
cuffs 10 mm
collar 25 mm

It is an older jacket, bought as second hand.
Now we have snow & cold weather and the jacket is warm.
I usually wear a t-shirt & shirt & B-2 cap, when the temperatures are very low (-10 and more), i prefer to add a thin pullover.

kindest regards

 

[John Lever]

Thanks, keep warm in Austria.

 

[shiloh]

I wore my new one today, and I was freezing cold. When I checked, I was surprised to find the pile depth was only 10 mm !!
Can any other owners have a look please to confirm what their pile thickness is ?
Thanks,

Hello John,

I own a very, very early ELC dual tone ANJ-4 and the pile thickness from this jacket is 17 mm. Very warm jacket. Perhaps over the years ELC started to use thinner pile thickness for their shearlings. Here the pics I promised.

As you will notice my jacket has a double reenforment stitching at the zippers bottom (both sides instead of the left side only) and the hidden press buttons on the pocket flaps are IMO not as it should be. But still a very beautiful, warm and nice jacket. Size 40 but a little too snug on me.

Regards,

Shiloh

Hello John,

Here the pics I promised,

Regards,

Shiloh

 

[John Lever]

Thanks Shiloh,
That's a great jacket shame they won't do them any more. If it were a 44 I would make you an offer you couldn't refuse.

 

[John Lever]

Gary has offered to exchange the jacket for a replacement, but can't guarantee the fleece will be any longer. 10 mm on an Anj-4 ???
As expected this is excellent service from Eastman but I can't help but feel slightly confused.

 

[deeb7]

... 10 mm on an Anj-4 ??? As expected this is excellent service from Eastman but I can't help but feel slightly confused.

Strange, isn't it? ... 10 mm, that's D-1 fleece.

 

[John Lever]

Shiloh,
Is that a Crown zip on that jacket ?
If so I thought they were a recent addition to the product.

 

[LtGustl]

Servus from Vienna,

there is a new ELC AN-J-4 on eBay (item 260534968726), with pics to compare the fleece.

kindest regards

 

[deeb7]

A very thorough listing ...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0534968726

 

[shiloh]

Shiloh,
Is that a Crown zip on that jacket ?
If so I thought they were a recent addition to the product.

Hello John,

The jacket has been rezipped by ELC. The former owner told me it was issued with a Talon zipper but this one went down.

regards,

shiloh

 

[John Lever]

The issue has finally been resolved. Gary recognised that the fleece was shorter than spec. but put this down to the thickness of the leather ' confusing' the shearing machine at the tannery. He very kindly offered to replace the jacket even though I had worn it a few times, he even told me that it has sold to a happy recipient.
Since then though he informed me that they had no more skins and that the next batch could not be guaranteed to have longer wool. The outcome would not be apparent for a few weeks yet. [There was a slight feeling from them that the Anj-4 should not have thicker fleece though, and I started to feel a nuisance]
I decided to go for a refund.
I have even tracked down my fabulous russet trimmed jacket that I sold to fund the Broken Finish version. I had completely forgotten that it went to Austria, and the current owned responded to my wanted add at TFL asking
' did I want it back because I have never worn it ?'
So this is on it's way back to me from Vienna

 

[deeb7]

Great result, now keep it.

• They paved paradise and put up a parkin' lot
  With a pink hotel, a boutique, and a swingin' hot spot
  Don't it always seem to go
  That you don't know what you got till it's gone
  They paved paradise and put up a parkin' lot

 

[shiloh]

The issue has finally been resolved. Gary recognised that the fleece was shorter than spec. but put this down to the thickness of the leather ' confusing' the shearing machine at the tannery. He very kindly offered to replace the jacket even though I had worn it a few times, he even told me that it has sold to a happy recipient.
Since then though he informed me that they had no more skins and that the next batch could not be guaranteed to have longer wool. The outcome would not be apparent for a few weeks yet. [There was a slight feeling from them that the Anj-4 should not have thicker fleece though, and I started to feel a nuisance]
I decided to go for a refund.
I have even tracked down my fabulous russet trimmed jacket that I sold to fund the Broken Finish version. I had completely forgotten that it went to Austria, and the current owned responded to my wanted add at TFL asking
' did I want it back because I have never worn it ?'
So this is on it's way back to me from Vienna

Congrats with getting your early ELC ANJ-4 back. It looks very much the same as the one I own. Very good deal.

Regards,

Shiloh

 

[John Lever]

Great result, now keep it.

• They paved paradise and put up a parkin' lot
  With a pink hotel, a boutique, and a swingin' hot spot
  Don't it always seem to go
  That you don't know what you got till it's gone
  They paved paradise and put up a parkin' lot

David,
Ain't that the truth ....
This one stays at home.

 

[bristolherc]

I have even tracked down my fabulous russet trimmed jacket that I sold

Is this the one Eastman deny making John ?, it's a beauty........for God's sake man, keep it

Bevan.

 

[bristolherc]

The issue has finally been resolved. Gary recognised that the fleece was shorter than spec. but put this down to the thickness of the leather ' confusing' the shearing machine at the tannery.

John, I first read this explanation at our beach place on my iphone, and the the bloody thing kept on timing out while I was trying to type my reply, now I'm home and I'm no less increduless, so here are my thoughts....I think the explanation to you, the customer,...is an insult.

"Spec" pile as quoted by David on pg 2 is 3/4", or 19mm. Your pile is 10mm. Are we to believe the missing 9mm or part thereof is down to variations in hide thickness ?...hmmmmm

I was present when the pile for my Few M-444 was shaved to 10mm. We put a scrap piece through to check the settings and the result. Adjustments were made, and the 5 skins had their pile shaved to length. I have seen different settings made for skins for batches of B-6's, D-1's, B-3's etc. and for arms, torsos and collars.

Your short pile smacks of corner cutting......no less. It seems whole batches of skins are shorn to a set length, thereafter you takes what you get.

I may be a simple Kiwi boy off the land, but I can pick a whiff of bullshite when it's in the air.

IMO of course.

Bevan

 

[John Lever]

I have even tracked down my fabulous russet trimmed jacket that I sold

Is this the one Eastman deny making John ?, it's a beauty........for God's sake man, keep it

Bevan.

I will together with the best one of all my RMNZ. Look how the fleece parts, that means it's long.

 

[John Lever]

The issue has finally been resolved. Gary recognised that the fleece was shorter than spec. but put this down to the thickness of the leather ' confusing' the shearing machine at the tannery.

John, I first read this explanation at our beach place on my iphone, and the the bloody thing kept on timing out while I was trying to type my reply, now I'm home and I'm no less increduless, so here are my thoughts....I think the explanation to you, the customer,...is an insult.

"Spec" pile as quoted by David on pg 2 is 3/4", or 19mm. Your pile is 10mm. Are we to believe the missing 9mm or part thereof is down to variations in hide thickness ?...hmmmmm

I was present when the pile for my Few M-444 was shaved to 10mm. We put a scrap piece through to check the settings and the result. Adjustments were made, and the 5 skins had their pile shaved to length. I have seen different settings made for skins for batches of B-6's, D-1's, B-3's etc. and for arms, torsos and collars.

Your short pile smacks of corner cutting......no less. It seems whole batches of skins are shorn to a set length, thereafter you takes what you get.

I may be a simple Kiwi boy off the land, but I can pick a whiff of bullshite when it's in the air.

IMO of course.

Bevan

I agree 100% with your sentiment.
The good thing though is that Gary was good enough to give me a full refund even though the jacket was worn.
The whole thing started when I was out one night over Xmas. I only wear one layer beneath a heavy jacket. The wind blew an icy blast and it went right through the jacket.
It was useless as an insulator.

 

[bristolherc]

The issue has finally been resolved. Gary recognised that the fleece was shorter than spec. but put this down to the thickness of the leather ' confusing' the shearing machine at the tannery.

John, I first read this explanation at our beach place on my iphone, and the the bloody thing kept on timing out while I was trying to type my reply, now I'm home and I'm no less increduless, so here are my thoughts....I think the explanation to you, the customer,...is an insult.

"Spec" pile as quoted by David on pg 2 is 3/4", or 19mm. Your pile is 10mm. Are we to believe the missing 9mm or part thereof is down to variations in hide thickness ?...hmmmmm

I was present when the pile for my Few M-444 was shaved to 10mm. We put a scrap piece through to check the settings and the result. Adjustments were made, and the 5 skins had their pile shaved to length. I have seen different settings made for skins for batches of B-6's, D-1's, B-3's etc. and for arms, torsos and collars.

Your short pile smacks of corner cutting......no less. It seems whole batches of skins are shorn to a set length, thereafter you takes what you get.

I may be a simple Kiwi boy off the land, but I can pick a whiff of bullshite when it's in the air.

IMO of course.

Bevan

The good thing though is that Gary was good enough to give me a full refund even though the jacket was worn.

Fair enough, so he should, the M-445 is a "Jacket, Winter Flying, Heavy". 10mm is not "Heavy"

Bevan.

 

[Geir]

It seems that ELC jackets these days do not have very thick fleece, but that does not have to be a bad thing. Here in our part of Norway it has been cold since the Christmas holidays. I think it was around -27C (16.6F) at the coldest where we live, which means that it would be around -30 down in the valley where the main road is. This kind of cold is a nuisance; the car won't start unless you take precautions, the trains are delayed if they come at all etc.
The cold weather has given me a chance to test my sheepskin jackets in various freezing temperatures and the winner is: Aero B3. I bought this around three years ago and the fleece is a bit more than 20mm (I find it difficult to measure this precisely). I have just come back from a walk with the dogs wearing only a t-shirt underneath the jacket and it was more than warm enough. I suppose I should add that I wore sweatpants underneath my cargo pants. The problem with short flight jackets is that even if your torso is nice and warm you may end up with frostbitten genitalia and this is no fun at all (I speak from experience). I have used this jacket with a cotton turtleneck sweater underneath when it was -25C (-13F) and I was perfectly OK. The downside is that the jacket is just too warm for the rest of the winter. The long and dense fleece and narrow sleeves make this a jacket which is not all that comfortable.
I also have two ELC Irvins. Last year I bought their standard 1942 pattern Irvin and I was a bit disappointed when I took it out of the box as the fleece was not curly and just a bit over 10mm long. But it's a great jacket! Very comfortable and not heavy. I have used it down to -15C (5F) with the turtleneck sweater with no problems and it is also possible to use it when the conditions are not arctic.
However, my favourite cold weather jacket is a multipanel 1944 pattern ELC Irvin. This is one of three or four jackets they made a few years ago using sheepskin from the BoB jackets. The fleece on this one is rather less than 10mm, but at 46 it's a size bigger than my normal 44 and with the comfortable cut of this jacket I can use a heavy woollen sweater with the jacket and then I will be able to withstand more or less any cold.
I have two other Irvin repros that do not get any use: An older Aero prewar Irvin, but this is a rather small 44 and quite short, so it does not overlap my belt properly which is uncomfortable in cold weather. Besides in the the time that has passed since I bought it it has shrunk :roll:. I also have a WPG Irvin which I don't use as it's not warm enough here.

This is Robbie the Whippet during the Xmas holidays. It was -24C outside and he was very well aware of this and refused to move away from the stove when I was going to take him and the other two dogs for a walk. Even with a knitted sweater under his dog coat he found the outdoor life unpleasant.