Zemke's Wolfpack!

[T-Bolt]

Here are a few shots of the awesome 56th Fighter Group.
Photo's courtesy of Jack Cook.

(Left to Right) Francis "Gabby" Gabreski, Gerald Johnson, Robert S. Johnson, Dave Schilling, Bud Mahurin, and Bob Landry.

Gabby and ground crew.

Gabby in his famous T-Bolt "HV-A".

Gabby in full flight gear including B-10

Double ace Mike Quirk of the 62nd Fighter Squadron, 56th F.G.

 

[Anonymous]

Warms the cockles of one's heart ...

Not so vorsprung durch technik:

 

[Anonymous]

http://www.acepilots.com/german/ger_aces.html

Seems pretty friggin' vorsprung durch technik to me! Made everyone PALE in comparison...

 

[Anonymous]

http://www.acepilots.com/german/ger_aces.html

Seems pretty friggin' vorsprung durch technik to me! Made everyone PALE in comparison...

Not really. If you read the article you posted, it explains, sort of.

 

[Andrew]

Were all these guys former Eagle Squadron? They are exclusively using RAF headgear and masks (aside from the goggles). The first pattern Type C helmet dates from around 1941. They would have had to use radio jacks and adaptors for the O2 hoses?

I presume that it was a badge of honour to keep using it as well as probably just preferable through function and comfort even after better designed A-11's with the correct wiring were available.

 

[Andrew]

http://www.acepilots.com/german/ger_aces.html

Seems pretty friggin' vorsprung durch technik to me! Made everyone PALE in comparison...

According to Ace Bobby Gibbes CO 3 Sqn RAAF in Nth Africa in the foreword to "Desert Warriors";

"After the War I became a friend of Erhard Braune, an ex-Commanding officer of III/JG27. In discussion with him on tactics etc, I asked him why the claims of some Luftwaffe Pilots appeared unrealistic as they didn't add up with our own losses. He told me that these high claims helped the morale of the German population".

In the Desert the RAAF would only allow a claim if it were visually confirmed by a witness. I presume the RAF was the same. He goes on to recall many anecdotes about kills which could not be confirmed due to circumstances.

 

[Anonymous]

Were all these guys former Eagle Squadron? They are exclusively using RAF headgear and masks (aside from the goggles). The first pattern Type C helmet dates from around 1941. They would have had to use radio jacks and adaptors for the O2 hoses?

I presume that it was a badge of honour to keep using it as well as probably just preferable through function and comfort even after better designed A-11's with the correct wiring were available.

Seems RAF headgear was used by many 8th, 9th AF fighter pilots , particularly those deployed in the early days (42-early 44). If you take a look at photos of various groups on web-birds you'll see about 50% of photos show US airmen wearing UK headgear.

http://www.web-birds.com/

 

[Anonymous]

http://www.acepilots.com/german/ger_aces.html

Seems pretty friggin' vorsprung durch technik to me! Made everyone PALE in comparison...

Not really. If you read the article you posted, it explains, sort of.

No REALLY... the top German pilots even in the West had scores over one hundred! Using the author's own argument you could say at the end of the war Allied pilots should have racked up huge scores against 18 year-old German pilots with 10 hours training! (as the Germans did against inexperienced Russian pilots at the beginning of the war) or that Allied kills of such pilots don't count as much! I'm not sure about the "fly 'til you die" argument either- All German soldiers received leave until the last months of the war. I think the sensible American policy of sparing it's top pilots for use in training prevented them from achieving anything like the incredible 200+ club of Luftwaffe pilots who had to be the best of the war! But that doesn't take anything away from the Germans!

 

[Anonymous]

Thats because they never went home to stay after their tour like our guys-remember? OUR guys, you wrong side lover. The side you love so much had to fly untill killed, captured or untill the war was over.

 

[Anonymous]

Thats because they never went home to stay after their tour like our guys-remember? OUR guys, you wrong side lover. The side you love so much had to fly untill killed, captured or untill the war was over.

Funny- I started out 10 years ago researching the Eastern Front and became a Red Army admirer! the more delving you do into that contest you see that 1944-5 on Western Front was a fraction of the ground war. AND that aside from a little blip of brilliance by Patton in western France in the summer of '44 OUR guy's war was a plodding boring full frontal assault dependent on overwhelming mass and complete air superiority! (you know- what our history books said the Russkis did!) Politics aside the Germans simply were a better army- defeated only by a Red Army that became almost as good and was willing to take the casualties. OUR guy's main contribution was the Air War which destroyed the Luftwaffe- again by overwhelming numbers!

 

[hacker]

OUR guy's main contribution was the Air War which destroyed the Luftwaffe- again by overwhelming numbers!

When you get done worshiping your Nazi hero's ....you can more clearly look at the facts!.......Our use of aircraft in a tactical role, was first and foremost their most successful role in WW2. Destroying the Luftwaffe is an important and close second. This was achieved through superior aircraft, training and logistics. By the latter part of the war, the German's were not able to bring forth the "super" weapons they had created i.e. ME-262 in useful numbers because of horrific planning, and the slow destruction of Germany's ability to produce weapons of war. Tactical use of aviation was part of the Nazi's original methods in the early years, and they were excellent at it. But as the war went on they were forced into a defensive posture they were ill equipped to fight. One need only look at the allied use of aircraft in submarine warfare to realize how deadly they were. They basically destroyed the effectiveness of their use (u-boats) by late war, something you might want to "study".......Did they have great pilots, of course,...but no better or worse then their counterparts. Since they were relegated to trying to stop the onslaught brought to bear on them, their missions allowed for a much greater "aircraft tally" then the allies could have had. Count how many tanks, trains, subs, and other mechanized equipment they destroyed versus the allies....and you might think they were totally incompetent!!!.....


Hacker

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Hacker-good little history lesson- accurate for the most part- again thanks! Believe me I understand the ironies of history- the most centralized nationalistic dictatorship in history had a disorganized slap-dash war production industry controlled by private interests!

Did they have great pilots, of course,...but no better or worse then their counterparts.

I'm arguing that the top German pilots were in a fighter pilot stratosphere all their own- how they got there isn't important- the fact is they had many pilots who had vast experience and skill and knowledge of what it meant to destroy 100, 200 or even 300 planes on an individual basis- we simply didn't! To not acknowledge that is denial. I'm saying they WERE better than their counterparts- if by experience alone!

 

[Anonymous]

Count how many tanks, trains, subs, and other mechanized equipment they destroyed versus the allies....and you might think they were totally incompetent!!!.....

As usual for Americans you're not counting the Soviets among "The Allies". If you count all the Soviet tanks, trains mechanized equipment and SOLDIERS the Germans destroyed then they become the most competent army ever! Even the broken, disillusioned, Wehrmacht of the late war in the West managed to hold up the Western Allies for a year even though these Allies had a ten to one advantage in equipment and virtually complete air superiority! It took Soviet blood in the East to win the war- the Western Allies wouldn't have stood a chance against a healthy Wehrmacht not drained white in the East.

 

[hacker]

Thanks Wing Nut-good little history lesson- accurate for the most part- again thanks! ....

Did they have great pilots, of course,...but no better or worse then their counterparts.

I'm arguing that the top German pilots were in a fighter pilot stratosphere all their own- how they got there isn't important- the fact is they had many pilots who had vast experience and skill and knowledge of what it meant to destroy 100, 200 or even 300 planes on an individual basis- we simply didn't! To not acknowledge that is denial. I'm saying they WERE better than their counterparts- if by experience alone!

You got Wing Nut on your brain? :shock:

Thanks for the double quote!

"To not acknowledge that is denial.".........denial!!!...coming from you, that's rich!!!!!........

Yes, some of them were MUCH more experienced at fighter pilot tactics, though destroying massive amounts of poorly trained and ill equipped Russian aircraft, yes thats where many of your heros got the high kill counts is hardly a testament to their great skill. I suspect if a few American pilots were given P-51's early in the war and flew on for the duration with no other task then seeking out and shooting down Nazi's you would have seen some high scores as well. It just was not how it was done!......Sad for you was that many of these "great" pilots were killed towards the end of the war, many by newly minted pilots because in the end you only get so much luck. Just think of all the memoirs you could be reading by all your idols! :cry:


Hacker

 

[hacker]

Count how many tanks, trains, subs, and other mechanized equipment they destroyed versus the allies....and you might think they were totally incompetent!!!.....

As usual for Americans you're not counting the Soviets among "The Allies". If you count all the Soviet tanks, trains mechanized equipment and SOLDIERS the Germans destroyed then they become the most competent army ever! Even the broken, disillusioned, Wehrmacht of the late war in the West managed to hold up the Western Allies for a year even though these Allies had a ten to one advantage in equipment and virtually complete air superiority! It took Soviet blood in the East to win the war- the Western Allies wouldn't have stood a chance against a healthy Wehrmacht not drained white in the East.

As usual?.......The Russians absolutely took the brunt of the war!!!!....no questions asked!!!!......And the amount of Nazi equipment destroyed by the Soviets is equally staggering!....And this has what to do with pilot superiority?.........NOTHING!!!!!....The German's were great at combat, and I guess it would be fair to group the Japanese in there as well,.....and.... in the end they lost!!!!!.........Master race my ass!!!!!

Hacker

 

[Anonymous]

As usual?.......The Russians absolutely took the brunt of the war!!!!....no questions asked!!!!......And the amount of Nazi equipment destroyed by the Soviets is equally staggering!....And this has what to do with pilot superiority?.........NOTHING!!!!!....The German's were great at combat, and I guess it would be fair to group the Japanese in there as well,.....and.... in the end they lost!!!!!.........Master race my ass!!!!!

Hacker

Weird- arguing against your own previous argument AND believing your own propaganda about me being a Nazi! (I never called anyone the "Master Race")But for that I think we're actually agreeing in a complicated obscure way!

 

[hacker]

.......I think we're actually agreeing in a complicated obscure way!

No need to get nasty! :twisted:


Hacker

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry- you're right- I think in some obscure complicated way you're WRONG! :lol:

 

[hacker]

Sorry- you're right- I think in some obscure complicated way you're WRONG! :lol:

That's more like it! :lol:

Hacker

 

[Anonymous]

I want to set up another situation or post where you can come up with more of the "meth lab" stuff! I laughed for a whole day and I'm still chuckling about it. :lol: