Wow. What a looker.

[Roughwear]

I was not referring to the length of the knits, but the weave. I have handled hundreds of original A2s and the length of the knits varies which is not down to any slight shrinking over time. Yes knits become distorted with use as they do on modern repro A-2s. To say these knits look nothing like they would have done 75+ years ago is stretching the truth somewhat. Here are some from a mint Star Sportswear which show little signs of stretching and they show the correct weave which the BK ones do not.

 

[Ole]

Please let me borrow your microscope because I cannot see what difference in weave you are talking about.

 

[Roughwear]

Oh dear! Time you had an eye test then!

 

[Persimmon]

Please let me borrow your microscope because I cannot see what difference in weave you are talking about.

Ha ha. Why not use your own one.
It was working so well not to long ago ..

Perhaps you might stop throwing the everyone hates Bill Kelso remarks around. It’s not true.

Some folks want perfection in reproduction. And nothing wrong with that. And it’s useful knowledge to have things pointed out.
Others are happy to have a very good representation of the jacket contract and can live with little odd areas like the knits etc. I do.
This is the Victory BK I bought in May 2013

Sadly Bill Kelso’s problem is that their jackets are as expensive as most of the main players.
The quality of certain leathers etc is fab.
It was just that Platon and crew came in loudly proclaiming that they could do fab jackets and way way less prices.
And they did... for a while
It just set for folks perhaps a less than perfect level of expectation.

 

[Dr H]

...and tbh their cause has never been helped by the incessant shilling that has accompanied a lot of posts either on this forum or FL...

 

[jeremiah]

I had a bid on it. I would have bid again but was driving. I was the bidder with 256 feedback.
Oh well.
I am enjoying my ELC. To me the leather is butter soft, strong and comfortable. Grain is nice too. Check out above pic. the patina it’s taking on. The raised areas are like a seal color with the russet underneath


I will keep looking.

I wish I could turn back time and grab a BK victory hide in my size. Love that seal color persimmon.

 

[stanier]

Beautiful Aero contract repro A-2 Persimmon.

I think my dream A-2 would have Bill Kelso Victory leather, and ELC / Buzz Crown zip. Who has the most perfect knits?..

I have to admit that I find myself seeing both points of view on the knit evidence picture posts above! It’s very uncomfortable on the fence!

 

[Ole]

Ha ha. Why not use your own one.
It was working so well not to long ago ..

I was referring to length and shape and those knits look just right in both. You don't need microscope to see that.

Oh dear! Time you had an eye test then!

Your arguments are empty of justification. You throw a "the BK knits do not have the correct weave" and we're supposed to believe that just because you say that you handled a hundred jackets? Well guess what? I have handled a few myself and you know what? They were all different. So which one is the correct weave? Can you describe what's the correct weave like? No? I didn't think so.

I will describe it for you. It's called Rib 1x1. BK's is clearly Rib 1x1 stitch and so it's the SAME weave with originals. Their knits are also the same size with the WWII pics, (not shrunken like yours), so what incorrect weave are you talking about?

The way I see it you just need to bash BK so their jackets won't appear to be in par with those of your favorite maker. (that has started to get annoying for many of us here). Of course, I could be wrong, so if you can thoroughly describe what exactly is wrong with the weave, (no vague talk "they are not correct") I am all ears and will be happy to reconsider.

Some folks want perfection in reproduction. And nothing wrong with that.

And who makes the perfect A-2 reproduction? Goodwear? Same perfect like their M422 jackets? Don't get me started. (You gonna give me mouse X-rays again?)

There is no such thing as a perfect reproduction. I have seen many repros and every one had its flaws. So each one of us who wants to buy can decide with what flaws he can live with.

Sadly Bill Kelso’s problem is that their jackets are as expensive as most of the main players.
The quality of certain leathers etc is fab.
It was just that Platon and crew came in loudly proclaiming that they could do fab jackets and way way less prices.
And they did... for a while
It just set for folks perhaps a less than perfect level of expectation.

That is off topic. We were discussing whether the knits are the correct weave or not. Oh, I get it, you need to bash BK a little bit too. I am OK with that. But I am tired with the hypocrisy around here. Everybody sees flaws in brands other than his favorite. His favorite brand is flawless, of course. Seems I am one of the very few objective people here, I see little flaws in every brand.

 

[Dr H]

Seems I am one of the very few objective people here, I see little flaws in every brand.

When you've finished with that copy of 'How to Win Friends and Influence People', may I borrow it please?

 

[Ole]

When you've finished with that copy of 'How to Win Friends and Influence People', may I borrow it please?

If you got to be hypocrite and kiss ass to make friends, go ahead.
I don't do hypocrite/kiss ass.

 

[Persimmon]

I was referring to length and shape and those knits look just right in both. You don't need microscope to see that.



Your arguments are empty of justification. You throw a "the BK knits do not have the correct weave" and we're supposed to believe that just because you say that you handled a hundred jackets? Well guess what? I have handled a few myself and you know what? They were all different. So which one is the correct weave? Can you describe what's the correct weave like? No? I didn't think so.

I will describe it for you. It's called Rib 1x1. BK's is clearly Rib 1x1 stitch and so it's the SAME weave with originals. Their knits are also the same size with the WWII pics, (not shrunken like yours), so what incorrect weave are you talking about?

The way I see it you just need to bash BK so their jackets won't appear to be in par with those of your favorite maker. (that has started to get annoying for many of us here). Of course, I could be wrong, so if you can thoroughly describe what exactly is wrong with the weave, (no vague talk "they are not correct") I am all ears and will be happy to reconsider.



And who makes the perfect A-2 reproduction? Goodwear? Same perfect like their M422 jackets? Don't get me started. (You gonna give me mouse X-rays again?)

There is no such thing as a perfect reproduction. I have seen many repros and every one had its flaws. So each one of us who wants to buy can decide with what flaws he can live with.



That is off topic. We were discussing whether the knits are the correct weave or not. Oh, I get it, you need to bash BK a little bit too. I am OK with that. But I am tired with the hypocrisy around here. Everybody sees flaws in brands other than his favorite. His favorite brand is flawless, of course. Seems I am one of the very few objective people here, I see little flaws in every brand.

Ole
My favourite brand is Bill Kelso.
I have bought and wear jackets by them.
Yet when I point out that it’s not flawless you have a go at me.
Yet you say - everyone’s favourite brand they believe is flawless compared to the other manufacturers.

Oh Ole. You really do make it hard for yourself.
Perhaps if you listened a little more and spoke a little less you might actually get sone valid points across.

On the left is the Goodwear jacket and on the right side is the Bill Kelso jacket.
Note the period close fitting leather ears.

Or is it the other way around.
Damn these mouse rays.

 

[Ole]

Really? From your posts in this forum I thought your favorite brand is the one you are defending with your x-rays in the "M422 best manufacturer" thread.

Yet when I point out that it’s not flawless you have a go at me.

I did not see the flaws of the BK jacket in your post below. I can only read that you are not happy with BK's marketing.

Sadly Bill Kelso’s problem is that their jackets are as expensive as most of the main players.
The quality of certain leathers etc is fab.
It was just that Platon and crew came in loudly proclaiming that they could do fab jackets and way way less prices.
And they did... for a while
It just set for folks perhaps a less than perfect level of expectation.

Our difference is that I spoke about flaws in the jackets, not flaws in brands' conduct.
Let me repeat that for you. "Every brand has little flaws in their jackets"

 

[Dr H]

If you got to be hypocrite and kiss ass to make friends, go ahead.
I don't do hypocrite/kiss ass.

I also try to avoid insulting keyboard warriors, you might want to try it?

 

[Ole]

I don't care to insult you.
Your every post is either bashing BK or is irrelevant trying to deviate off topic.

Take a look at EBAY item 35236283686 for example. Needs a bit of TLC but very wearable.
Or 183238900119?

Here you are suggesting that we 'd rather buy an old jacket than a BK. You are even proposing us which ones to buy. You took the time to find them, thanks.

The wristlets in the image have been top stitched, so they're either from a very early, '30s jacket (it's not a SAT, so perhaps a Werber 36-1112P or 39-2951P?) or the cuffs have been replaced and top stitched.

We were talking about the correct spec of the knits and you jump in telling us if the original jacket in the photo is a SAT or Werber deviating off topic.
Thanks.

...and tbh their cause has never been helped by the incessant shilling that has accompanied a lot of posts either on this forum or FL...

You are bashing BK a little...
Thanks.

When you've finished with that copy of 'How to Win Friends and Influence People', may I borrow it please?

The discussion was still about knits weave. You want to judge me? Sorry but your post is irrelevant.

Now you are insulted too?

 

[Persimmon]

Really? From your posts in this forum I thought your favorite brand is the one you are defending with your x-rays in the "M422 best manufacturer" thread.

( My dear Ole. Whilst I have had Goodwear jackets in A2 I prefer my Bill Kelso. It was made exactly how I ordered it. )

I did not see the flaws of the BK jacket in your post below. I can only read that you are not happy with BK's marketing.

( My dear Ole The knits dear boy. The knits. )


Our difference is that I spoke about flaws in the jackets, not flaws in brands' conduct.
Let me repeat that for you. "Every brand has little flaws in their jackets"

( My Dear Ole. Perhaps the X-rays are making your eyesight go. As above I mentioned flaws in jackets. Of all brands. That’s why I believe no one will ever get perfection. However for me. I am happy with what I have now. )

Ole. As before you really do make it hard for yourself.

Now as always to try and keep you happy and contented.

Jacket comparison time !!!

( a ). The Goodwear
( b ). The Bill Kelso
( c ). The mystery jacket manufacturer.

 

[Dr H]

I don't care to insult you.
Your every post is either bashing BK or is irrelevant trying to deviate off topic.

- Nonsense, I worked with Platon to develop one of the first A-1 jacket patterns that BK offered for sale.

Here you are suggesting that we 'd rather buy an old jacket than a BK. You are even proposing us which ones to buy. You took the time to find them, thanks.

- The OP asked for some suggestions for original (vintage) jackets in his size - take the time to read the post.

We were talking about the correct spec of the knits and you jump in telling us if the original jacket in the photo is a SAT or Werber deviating off topic.
Thanks.

- The image that you linked had topstitched knits (relevant to the topic) and I made the point that you were actually discussing a different jacket pattern, from a different period of manufacture.

You are bashing BK a little...

- Nonsense.

Thanks.

- Thanks.



The discussion was still about knits weave. You want to judge me? Sorry but your post is irrelevant.

Now you are insulted too?

No, not at all, but I think that you might take time to read the posts, get down from the high horse, and you might get more from the forum.

 

[Ole]

 

[Dr H]

Older members of the forum might have seen some resemblance to a previous Spanish sock puppet...

 

[Ole]

Why don't you say it clearly that nobody is entitled to have a different opinion than the "Older members of the forum"?

So who are they? So I can answer "Yes Sir" to whatever they say next time.
Are you one of them?

 

[Persimmon]

Why don't you say it clearly that nobody is entitled to have a different opinion than the "Older members of the forum"?

So who are they? So I can answer "Yes Sir" to whatever they say next time.
Are you one of them?

Dear Ole. With such an attitude there is clearly no danger of you ever becoming one !!