Wingnut has left the building

[khiattP-51]

I certainly lost a great deal of the spark of enthusiasm I once had for the subject. Looking at my own posts confirms that my limited contributions were mostly on non-jacket topics. Further, I've sold off 3/4 of a once large collection. As the fall weather sets in and I'm actually wearing a jacket again, albeit usually a sport jacket rather than an A-2 and I am back to checking the forum as often as my busy schedule allows.

I would like for this place to be everything to everybody and we (Bill, Chris, JC and myself) really do our very best to hit that mark. We also try to make sure that the original integrity of why this place for our obscure interests and common love of aviation history remains. With that comes the dirty work that none of us enjoy. I hope you guys see that we still operate as a total non-police state here with very limited moderation. When we do have to act, it is usually done after giving second, third and even fourth chances. Or, even modifying the rules so that members are not enticed into bad behaviors.

So, just short of opening up the controversial politics, I'm interested, what else can we do to get that collective spark back?


Take care guys,
-Kevin

 

[siddhartha]

I have had no problem with political posts in the past, but they ALWAYS degrade into mud slinging, name calling, and insults.

ALWAYS.

This forces the hands of the mods to spend their valuable time being a referee for fights between members. If it isn't incessant PM'ing mods, it's blatant insults/threats between members that force us to ban threads, warn members, etc. All of which is a waste of time.

And, I do have a bit of legal/moral obligation to the forum to try and keep it a safe, relatively calm place. The last thing I need is to be personally threatened (it HAS happened) with a lawsuit, or the my personal safety. Not worth it, if for nothing else to allow political posts.
There are other forums that allow politics, and unfortunately, this one was forced to NOT be one of them, by a few bad apples.

I have ALWAYS been one to have a mostly "hands-off" moderating style, and believed that members could moderate themselves. I stuck to this for years, but unfortunately, I have been proven wrong too often.

I would love to allow any post at all, and would love to know that if I or the other mods were away for a few days, that we wouldn't come back to some crisis or another between members.

I have thought in the past to make a "hands-off" section, but we all know how that can be

Chris

 

[Peter Graham]

So, just short of opening up the controversial politics, I'm interested, what else can we do to get that collective spark back?

Kevin, good question. I think you guys have struck the right balance with the forum and I thank you for that.
It's a much frendlier place now, not that it was ever unfriendly but with hitting the right balance things have maybe become a bid staid. The members with the most contriversial and therfore entertaining views have gone for one reason or another. Some of these guys had great knowledge and enthusiasm whch I for one greatly miss. One member in particular I feel was unfairly dismissed but I don't know what went on behind the scenes. Maybe bringing back politics for a trial period would do no harm or luring macumbe back with the promise of a free Goodwear. Removing the ban from the Spanish whipping boy might be fun too. I've a bone to pick with him about the size of a certain Navy jacket !

 

[bfrench]

It's no secret that Wingnut's removal was driven by one individual.......So Bill gets stuck with the crappy and thankless job of keeping civility among a worldwide network of gentlemen and crackpots all interested in flight jackets. As restrictions are put into place, members on the far ends cease to post...just the way it is. Wingnut can certainly be a bit rough on the edges, he's a big boy now, not much we can do to improve his forum etiquette skills...but he was always helpful to me....went out of his way to travel over to G&B when I needed a few things......rules are rules......be careful for what you ask......you can't please everybody........

Hacker

Hi, Hacker,

Yes - Wing Nut's deletion was driven by one certain individual - Wing Nut and only Wing Nut.

He was cautioned many times to curb his enthusiasm but to no avail - it just felt like he was taking advantage and continually pushing the limits.

Even then, I just didn't unceremoniously delete his membership - I consulted with all our admins and got their opinions / support - after all, it is Chris' forum - then he was dumped about four days after the last occurrence.

Oddly enough, I mistook the shot that Wing had made at a member as being at someone else.

As for our record with politics - could you image the fist fights that would have broken out if we'd been at a cocktail party or an afternoon barbecue in someone's garden.

Cheers,
Bill French

 

[watchmanjimg]

As for our record with politics - could you image the fist fights that would have broken out if we'd been at a cocktail party or an afternoon barbecue in someone's garden.

I think this is mostly an Internet phenomenon. I imagine that most offenders wouldn't have the stones to behave that way if they thought they were facing any real consequences.

 

[sealbeachbum]

I consider Carl (wingnut) my friend. He is a very nice guy in person. He just retired from the Navy last year after serving our country for 30 years as a Navy Seal. He has fought for our freedom and the freedom of others that are less fortunate than us. He has fought to keep us free from any more terrorist attacks on our soil since 9-11-01. He was a Corpsman so his job was to save lives as well as take the lives of our enemies. Even as a civilian he is now working at Camp Pendleton Marine Corps Base teaching combat medicine to our Marines. In my book Carl is a hero and I am proud to call him my friend!

 

[RagTopPilot]

As for our record with politics - could you image the fist fights that would have broken out if we'd been at a cocktail party or an afternoon barbecue in someone's garden.

I think this is mostly an Internet phenomenon. I imagine that most offenders wouldn't have the stones to behave that way if they thought they were facing any real consequences.

Like he said: +1 on the internet phenomenon

I remember a George Carlin bit on this. He had a theory as to the relationship between the volume of an insult and the distance between the insulter and the insultee.

"Hey Buddy, you're an ass hole!", shouted out while driving one's car after being cut off.

vs.

"What an ass hole", muttered, into the palm of the hand covering one's face, while standing behind a person with a full cart of food in the express lane of the grocery store.

Funny stuff and in my opinion wholly true.

 

[jack aranda]

I'm a relative newbie to the forum--less than a year. I enjoy my daily visits here, in part because there are no politics. A welcome respite from the malestrom of madness aswirl beyond this friendly beige page. I appreciate the job the mods do, keeping the place clean and civil.

 

[airfrogusmc]

It's no secret that Wingnut's removal was driven by one individual.......So Bill gets stuck with the crappy and thankless job of keeping civility among a worldwide network of gentlemen and crackpots all interested in flight jackets. As restrictions are put into place, members on the far ends cease to post...just the way it is. Wingnut can certainly be a bit rough on the edges, he's a big boy now, not much we can do to improve his forum etiquette skills...but he was always helpful to me....went out of his way to travel over to G&B when I needed a few things......rules are rules......be careful for what you ask......you can't please everybody........


Hacker

The one individual was wingnut. No politics means no politics and he kept going there time and time again. Its no surprise that when you are told not to cross a line and you keep going there its no ones fault but your own. I think thats called being accountable. I am another one that really didn't want to ban politics but once it was decided you have to respect that decision. Maybe a few of the old timers will start coming back. Can't hurt to hope.

 

[Anonymous]

So Wingnut talked politics and that's why he had to leave?

I say we create a separate forum where the subject will be politics, everyone will be allowed to "degrade into mud slinging, name calling, and insults" and curse and where jacket talking will be strictly forbidden.

 

[Andrew]

I say we create a separate forum where the subject will be politics, everyone will be allowed to "degrade into mud slinging, name calling, and insults" and curse and where jacket talking will be strictly forbidden.

What i'd like to see created is a head scratching confused emoticon.

Platon, no offence but it might be a good idea to re-read the eighth and sixth posts above yours :lol:

 

[deeb7]

I say we create a separate forum where the subject will be politics ...

That's what we had, Platon ... it was called Life Beyond the Internet, and the big red disclaimer notice is still there. However it didn't work out so well, and eventually politics were banned.

I don't see any need to recreate it, but if that's something you are looking for, there are probably one, or two already out there on the Internet.

 

[deeb7]

What i'd like to see created is a head scratching confused emoticon.

 

[havocpaul]

I've never understood the need for the forum to have political discussions as they will always fall into rants, insults and controversy; don't think I ever read anything there as this forum to me is about the passion that is flight jackets. Occasionally there might be a cross-over area where other topics come into validity but I prefer to think this site is a meeting place for all jacket-nuts. I did hear from one ex-member that he left because there was too much 'gushing' over repros and not enough impartiality or much on actual vintage jackets. I think the balance is about right at the moment, a few of the more controversial and personally rude posters have departed but I guess there's still alot going on behind the scenes via pm's that can cause problems. I don't envy any moderator and they should be appreciated for holding it all together so well. The only other site I post at is the Backstreets (Springsteen) site and that often degenerates into childish behaviour and insults and it's meant to be an appreciation of a man's music and career!

 

[MikeyB-17]

You're never going to please all the people all the time. Some have left because there's too much 'gushing' over repros? What do they expect? The forum caters for both original and repro jackets, and I think it's a bit churlish to huff and puff if a chap's just received his fantastic new repro and he wants to tell everybody else about it, and have everyone tell him how nice it is. Where else can you do that, if not here? I like to read about originals, although I'm not a high end A-2 collector, but I'm interested in repros too. Whatever you do, there's going to be somebody who gets the hump and swans off. Unfortunately, as has been proved time and time again, even folk with a supposedly common interest can't stop snapping and snarling at each other. Human nature.
As for the political stuff, I'm not interested in it, and never read those threads, but if folk want to discuss it in the designated section, that's fine. I can see Chris's point when it starts to affect him and the mods personally, lawsuit threats and the like, if it gets out of hand, so I can understand why it needs to be monitored, and a lid kept on it.
I think the forum's fine at the moment, and don't feel the need for there to be constant differences of opinion in order to keep it 'entertaining'. I'm by no means as heavily into jackets as I was a few years ago, but I still come here every day, and enjoy doing so.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry to see Wing leave. I rarely agreed with his opinions and method of delivery but I respect anyone who has their own opinion. He was also a very knowledgable and helpful guy and I never detected any grudge-carrying myself.

I agree that politics should remain banned here - there's no doubt loads of forums for ranters out there.

This is only a jackets forum and it's easy enough to quarrel over such an unimportant subject as that without bringing in anything seriously worth falling out over.

There is NO-ONE on here that I would be pleased to see leave. Whether I agree or particularly like them or not. Nor anyone I hold a grudge against. I even on occasion miss the Spanish Poison Dwarf !! :twisted:

My personal opinion is that some of the people on here are not very robust and are not happy when they hear a view contrary to their own. Shame really as it is only a website.

J_H

 

[Anonymous]

Platon, no offence but it might be a good idea to re-read the eighth and sixth posts above yours

Sorry guys, I guess I missed that.

 

[havocpaul]

quote:
"Some have left because there's too much 'gushing' over repros? What do they expect?2

I don't think he ever objected to getting excited over a new repro someone may have bought it was more to the total dismissal of all other repros at that time by a few who were sniping whenever any other make was praised, I too commented when it got a bit over-the-top as every other repro post led back to one thing, it's settled down in more recent times and wasn't IMO worth quitting for but I think he had other issues too. I reiterate, keep politics out of the forum there's plenty of other chances to argue, preach and get personal elsewhere on the internet.

 

[Curahee]

So....how about a nice ice cold beer

 

[airfrogusmc]

So....how about a nice ice cold beer

Sounds like a plan to me.