Bah, why would I want to wear pilots wings? They only thing they did is drive me to work.
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Who is "Winged" and do you wear them on your jackets?
- Thread starter Ed Rooney
- Start date
Bah, why would I want to wear pilots wings? They only thing they did is drive me to work.
Ed Rooney
Well-Known Member
ausreenactor
Well-Known Member
US Army Aviation '15P' Ground Crew get their own snazzy wing....
www.goarmy.com
Aviation Operations Specialist
The role of an Army Aviation Operations Specialist is to coordinate flights. You must be vigilant when looking at weather patterns for air travel. Apply today.
Ed Rooney
Well-Known Member
Yeah, anyone with a 15 MOS is awarded the Army Aviation Badge, which I think is a little goofy, but that’s all after my time. I got it from going to the 67N UH-1 repairman course, then again for the 93B Aeroscout Observer course.
US Army Aviation '15P' Ground Crew get their own snazzy wing....
Aviation Operations Specialist
The role of an Army Aviation Operations Specialist is to coordinate flights. You must be vigilant when looking at weather patterns for air travel. Apply today.
Earloffunk
Well-Known Member
Put mit Para Wings on my CWUs that I have recently bought - but only to Cover the empty velcro spot on them. If there were no velcro I wouldnt put them on. I would not wear Pilot wings on my jackets - not earned, not worn.
airfrogusmc
Well-Known Member
Air Crew wings are also in the mix. I was a CH 46 Crew Chief when I was in the Marines. We would often put our actual wings on our name tags like this.
And yes they were very hard earned.
And yes they were very hard earned.
Ed Rooney
Well-Known Member
I remember some guys doing that, But all pin-on insignia was verboten on the flight line due to FOD.
Scary how many rank pin clutches we found on FOD walks.
Scary how many rank pin clutches we found on FOD walks.
Air Crew wings are also in the mix. I was a CH 46 Crew Chief when I was in the Marines. We would often put our actual wings on our name tags like this.
And yes they were very hard earned.
airfrogusmc
Well-Known Member
These are stuck directly into the leather with no backings. It wasn't an issue when I served. We all wore our wings on or utilities to. Even every morning on FOD walk. We also always wore our collar rank insignia.
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Ed Rooney
Well-Known Member
Yeah, the Army is more into sew-on stuff than the Marines. I remember being an E-2 or an E-3 and having to sew on my collar rank. Outside of Aviation, pin-on was more common.
That gold A/C badge is sharp.
That gold A/C badge is sharp.
airfrogusmc
Well-Known Member
Combat aircrew Navy and Marine are really cool to. I didn't earn those thank God.
Flightengineer
Well-Known Member
Air Crew wings are also in the mix. I was a CH 46 Crew Chief when I was in the Marines. We would often put our actual wings on our name tags like this.
And yes they were very hard earned.
Hi, I'd like to take this opportunity to ask a question.
Is the Crew Chief in USMC related to the flight crew? As far as I understand, you are the owner of the aircraft on the ground/deck and the boss in maintenance and repair. Do you have flight status perhaps as a flight engineer for verification any onboard equipment ets?
I've always thought that the Crew Chiefs don't have wings cause they don't fly.
Thanks for your reply.
airfrogusmc
Well-Known Member
Yeah in the Marines and Navy Crew Chiefs are flight crew and fly with the aircraft. Get flight pay and are on flight skins. We have to earn our wings. Hundreds of hours of school at least 100 flight hours and very intense tests. And combat wings are if you flew in combat. From Wikipedia
U.S. Navy – U.S. Marine Corps – U.S. Coast Guard[edit]
Further information: Badges of the United States Navy, Badges of the United States Marine Corps, and Badges of the United States Coast Guard
Naval and Coast Guard Aircrew Badge
The United States Navy, United States Marine Corps and United States Coast Guard issue the same version of the Aircrew Badge. The badge is a variation on the Naval Aviation Observer Badge with the letters AC centered on the badge's front.
In 2009, the Navy converted the badge from a qualification to a warfare designator like the Enlisted Aviation Warfare Specialist (EAWS), Enlisted Submarine Warfare Specialist, and Enlisted Surface Warfare Specialist (ESWS). The title was changed from Naval Aircrew (NAC) to Naval Aircrew Warfare Specialist (NAWS) and permitted USN Naval Aircrewman who also held the EAWS to place the Naval Aircrewman insignia in a senior position over their ribbons.[7]
Known as Naval Aircrew Wings and Coast Guard Aircrew Wings, it is authorized for personnel who have undergone extensive training in flight operations of naval aircraft. Such training includes weapons management, electronic warfare, and water survival. Contrary to most other services, naval aircrewmen do not receive their wings after aircrew school. Rather, they receive (not awarded) their wings only after completing their platform respective Personnel Qualification Standards (PQS) (roughly 1 year past the completion of training). Marine Crew Chiefs before Dec. 1971 were allowed to wear them, after 1971 the Marine Corp started awarding them to Crew Chiefs & all Aircrewman.
The Naval and Coast Guard Aircrew Wings are issued in a single degree with no upgrade devices used or authorized. A Naval enlisted person who has qualified for his or her Naval Aircrew Badge places the initials "NAC" in parentheses after his or her rate and rating; for example, a Chief Cryptologic Technician Interpretive, after having qualified for their NAC Badge, is identified as a CTIC (NAC).
Most Officer Aircrew members who are not Naval Aviators (i.e., pilots) are Naval Flight Officers and receive the Naval Flight Officer insignia after completion of a flight training syllabus nearly as long as that of their pilot counterparts. Certain naval officers (most notably selected intelligence and cryptology officers assigned to P-3 Orion, P-8 Poseidon, E-6 Mercury and EP-3E Aries II aircraft missions) can qualify for the Naval Aviation Observer Badge following completion of a structured Personnel Qualification Standard (PQS) syllabus and a check flight qualifying them for observer duties on that aircraft. The Marine Corps also previously used this badge for Aerial Observers in the since-retired OV-10 Bronco and OA-4M Skyhawk IIuntil eventually inputting these officers into SNFO training and designating them as Naval Flight Officers. Unlike Naval Aviators, Naval Flight Officers and Naval Flight Surgeons, Naval Aviation Observers have not completed a formal undergraduate flight training syllabus under the auspices of the Chief of Naval Air Training (CNATRA) and are not considered to be "aeronautically designated" officers in the Navy or Marine Corps.
Naval Aviation Observer Badge
Aircrew wings are issued almost exclusively to enlisted aviation ratings, with the exception of other sailors in other naval ratings who are assigned to aircrew billets, including but not limited to Cryptologists (CT), Information Technicians (IT), Intelligence Specialists (IS), and Hospital Corpsmen (HM). Former enlisted personnel who attain officer status are permitted to continue wear of the insignia. However, for the first three years of enlistment these wings are unobtainable due to recent changes in qualification requirements.
Combat Aircrew Insignia[edit]
U.S. Marine Corps Combat Aircrew Badge
During World War II, numerous fleet requests occurred to recognize the work of the enlisted aircrew members flying in combat, the result was the creation of the Air Crew Insignia on 18 May 1943. While primarily an enlisted insignia, officers were eligible if they met the same criteria of Bureau of Naval Personnel (BUPERS) Circular Letter 90-43. The design was essentially the same as today's insignia except all pewter silver with no gold. A subsequent BUPERS Circular Letter 395-44 dated 30 Dec 1944, changed the design to the same as today with the modification of the gold center disc. In 1958, the insignia was redesignated the Combat Aircrew Insignia. In 1978, the Navy removed the insignia as authorized wear and then in 1994, the Marine Corps reestablished the insignia as it is known today as the Marine Combat Aircrew Badge. It is a decoration of the United States Marine Corps which is awarded to those enlisted personnel who have served as aircrew members on board combat flights.
Examples of various aircrew badges at the National Air and Space Museum
For those who have participated in actual combat missions, gold service stars are worn pinned to the top of the decoration. MCO 1000.6G Para 3310.4 Upon earning more than three gold stars, silver stars are awarded in recognition of three gold stars, meaning three silver equates to nine gold plus the initial award of the combat aircrew device. MCO P1020 Para 4002.1F
The Marine Combat Aircrew Badge can be issued to service members of both the Marine Corps and United States Navy (while serving in a Marine Corps aviation squadron). Current regulations require a set number of combat 'points' to be earned before wear is authorized. It is not authorized to wear both the Combat Aircrew and Naval Aircrew pins at the same time. If an individual service member has been awarded both badges, they may decide which pin to wear on their uniform. A sailor who has qualified for the Combat Aircrew Badge and at least one gold star places the initials "CAC" in parentheses after their rate and rating; for example, a Hospital Corpsman 2nd Class (HM2), after having qualified for their CAC Badge, is identified as a HM2 (CAC).
U.S. Navy – U.S. Marine Corps – U.S. Coast Guard[edit]
Further information: Badges of the United States Navy, Badges of the United States Marine Corps, and Badges of the United States Coast Guard
Naval and Coast Guard Aircrew Badge
The United States Navy, United States Marine Corps and United States Coast Guard issue the same version of the Aircrew Badge. The badge is a variation on the Naval Aviation Observer Badge with the letters AC centered on the badge's front.
In 2009, the Navy converted the badge from a qualification to a warfare designator like the Enlisted Aviation Warfare Specialist (EAWS), Enlisted Submarine Warfare Specialist, and Enlisted Surface Warfare Specialist (ESWS). The title was changed from Naval Aircrew (NAC) to Naval Aircrew Warfare Specialist (NAWS) and permitted USN Naval Aircrewman who also held the EAWS to place the Naval Aircrewman insignia in a senior position over their ribbons.[7]
Known as Naval Aircrew Wings and Coast Guard Aircrew Wings, it is authorized for personnel who have undergone extensive training in flight operations of naval aircraft. Such training includes weapons management, electronic warfare, and water survival. Contrary to most other services, naval aircrewmen do not receive their wings after aircrew school. Rather, they receive (not awarded) their wings only after completing their platform respective Personnel Qualification Standards (PQS) (roughly 1 year past the completion of training). Marine Crew Chiefs before Dec. 1971 were allowed to wear them, after 1971 the Marine Corp started awarding them to Crew Chiefs & all Aircrewman.
The Naval and Coast Guard Aircrew Wings are issued in a single degree with no upgrade devices used or authorized. A Naval enlisted person who has qualified for his or her Naval Aircrew Badge places the initials "NAC" in parentheses after his or her rate and rating; for example, a Chief Cryptologic Technician Interpretive, after having qualified for their NAC Badge, is identified as a CTIC (NAC).
Most Officer Aircrew members who are not Naval Aviators (i.e., pilots) are Naval Flight Officers and receive the Naval Flight Officer insignia after completion of a flight training syllabus nearly as long as that of their pilot counterparts. Certain naval officers (most notably selected intelligence and cryptology officers assigned to P-3 Orion, P-8 Poseidon, E-6 Mercury and EP-3E Aries II aircraft missions) can qualify for the Naval Aviation Observer Badge following completion of a structured Personnel Qualification Standard (PQS) syllabus and a check flight qualifying them for observer duties on that aircraft. The Marine Corps also previously used this badge for Aerial Observers in the since-retired OV-10 Bronco and OA-4M Skyhawk IIuntil eventually inputting these officers into SNFO training and designating them as Naval Flight Officers. Unlike Naval Aviators, Naval Flight Officers and Naval Flight Surgeons, Naval Aviation Observers have not completed a formal undergraduate flight training syllabus under the auspices of the Chief of Naval Air Training (CNATRA) and are not considered to be "aeronautically designated" officers in the Navy or Marine Corps.
Naval Aviation Observer Badge
Aircrew wings are issued almost exclusively to enlisted aviation ratings, with the exception of other sailors in other naval ratings who are assigned to aircrew billets, including but not limited to Cryptologists (CT), Information Technicians (IT), Intelligence Specialists (IS), and Hospital Corpsmen (HM). Former enlisted personnel who attain officer status are permitted to continue wear of the insignia. However, for the first three years of enlistment these wings are unobtainable due to recent changes in qualification requirements.
Combat Aircrew Insignia[edit]
U.S. Marine Corps Combat Aircrew Badge
During World War II, numerous fleet requests occurred to recognize the work of the enlisted aircrew members flying in combat, the result was the creation of the Air Crew Insignia on 18 May 1943. While primarily an enlisted insignia, officers were eligible if they met the same criteria of Bureau of Naval Personnel (BUPERS) Circular Letter 90-43. The design was essentially the same as today's insignia except all pewter silver with no gold. A subsequent BUPERS Circular Letter 395-44 dated 30 Dec 1944, changed the design to the same as today with the modification of the gold center disc. In 1958, the insignia was redesignated the Combat Aircrew Insignia. In 1978, the Navy removed the insignia as authorized wear and then in 1994, the Marine Corps reestablished the insignia as it is known today as the Marine Combat Aircrew Badge. It is a decoration of the United States Marine Corps which is awarded to those enlisted personnel who have served as aircrew members on board combat flights.
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Examples of various aircrew badges at the National Air and Space Museum
For those who have participated in actual combat missions, gold service stars are worn pinned to the top of the decoration. MCO 1000.6G Para 3310.4 Upon earning more than three gold stars, silver stars are awarded in recognition of three gold stars, meaning three silver equates to nine gold plus the initial award of the combat aircrew device. MCO P1020 Para 4002.1F
The Marine Combat Aircrew Badge can be issued to service members of both the Marine Corps and United States Navy (while serving in a Marine Corps aviation squadron). Current regulations require a set number of combat 'points' to be earned before wear is authorized. It is not authorized to wear both the Combat Aircrew and Naval Aircrew pins at the same time. If an individual service member has been awarded both badges, they may decide which pin to wear on their uniform. A sailor who has qualified for the Combat Aircrew Badge and at least one gold star places the initials "CAC" in parentheses after their rate and rating; for example, a Hospital Corpsman 2nd Class (HM2), after having qualified for their CAC Badge, is identified as a HM2 (CAC).
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Ed Rooney
Well-Known Member
I will chime in for the Army and say that rotary wing crew chiefs are, in general, on flight status and are a standard flight crewmember. Of course, this would not apply to the AH-64, but UH-60 and CH-47 Crew Chiefs fly every mission. The CH-47 also has a Flight Engineer crewmember. As far as an aircrew badge, or wings, the Army awards the Army Aviation Badge upon completion of the MOS school, basically any Aviation MOS. Cryptologists, linguists, door gunners, etc who fly are also eligible for temporary award of the badge, which can later be made permanent.
As far as flight status, in my day they just cut flight orders and issued you a bunch of nomex gear. It's more structured now, as I understand it, with flight crew being required to attend specific training at soon-to-be renamed Fort Rucker. I understand they go through some SERE training as well as the dunker. Crewmembers, then and now, need to progress to Readiness Level 1 (RL1), which might be more analogous to what the USN/USMC crews have to do to earn the EAWS badge.
As far as flight status, in my day they just cut flight orders and issued you a bunch of nomex gear. It's more structured now, as I understand it, with flight crew being required to attend specific training at soon-to-be renamed Fort Rucker. I understand they go through some SERE training as well as the dunker. Crewmembers, then and now, need to progress to Readiness Level 1 (RL1), which might be more analogous to what the USN/USMC crews have to do to earn the EAWS badge.
airfrogusmc
Well-Known Member
As stated when I was in the Maines you don't get your wings until after you finish basic and specific helo schools. Then you are a first mech and you still need over 100 flight hours and then you have written tests and an in flight NATOPS evaluation before you earn your wings.
Flightengineer
Well-Known Member
What does the crew chef do in flight? Do you partly duplicate the function of an engineer? Here flight engineer or a flight technician are flight crew member on helicopters, including on big helicopters, but the chief technician - the equivalent of your crew chief - doesn't fly and he lead copter's ground crew.
I'm not from helicopter, all my life on fixed wing.
airfrogusmc
Well-Known Member
What we were responsable was everyhting that went on in the back and to also be able to tell the pilots what was happening when there was a problem like a circuit breaker popping. Talking them into LZs. Talking them over external cargo. Making sure the weight in the back didn't exceed regulations. Making sure all the maintenance was performed correctly by other dept like metal shop, hydraulics avionics etc. Making sure things like phase maintenance was performed on time. When I was in what was considered an operational squadron I was assigned a bird and that bird was my responsibility. Pre flight and post flight inspections. When aboard ship making sure the birds rotor blades are folded and it is tied down properly. Pretty much everything to do with the helicopter in flight and not in flight. Manning 50 cals. Usually first mech would get one and the crew chief the other. And making sure your aircraft met the flight schedule every day. Crew Chief or first mech would collect fuel samples everyday. The Crew Chief would be the first to sign off per flight inspection. Make sure the grunts were in and safe and that there weren't to many on board. That always depended on what and how much gear they were carrying.
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CBI
Well-Known Member
have not read this thread until now, bit it looks like its been here for a bit. As much as I love wings, squadron patches and all the trimmings, I agree that all military insignia are earned and should really only be worn by the folks who earn them. I think family of military men and women deserve the right to wear a squadron patch or something if they have a spouse serving in that unit. There are now (maybe for a long time) "patching' ceremonies were pilots/aircrew get assigned to operational squadrons. They get their patch of their new unit. These people earned these assignments through hard work. I know many including myself think of patched up jackets as tributes but we can "tribute" without the dress up. I suppose we could take this one step further and say military flight jackets are only given to pilots/aircrew/etc. so even wearing a plain jacket is not appropriate..............
Not losing any sleep over this, still LOVE military aviation and jackets and all things airplane.
Not losing any sleep over this, still LOVE military aviation and jackets and all things airplane.
ausreenactor
Well-Known Member
Crew Chief/SMO/'Loady' roles:
Pre-flight, draw weapons and ammo. Prepare/secure internal and external loads. Brief passengers. Assist with spatial awareness during taxi and flight. Scan arcs for threats. Engage threats as required.
Pass forward juice boxes for pilots.
Harrass Ground Crew...
ausreenactor
Well-Known Member
ausreenactor
Well-Known Member
100 percent. And in a pinch... could fly it.
