Spitfireace
Well-Known Member
Elitism is not going to endear itself to anybody.
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Where have all the members gone...?
- Thread starter Enigma1938
- Start date
Spitfireace
Well-Known Member
Thanks John. I appreciate it.
leper-colony
Well-Known Member
One issue is the forum was completely re-initialed, a few times.
Spitfireace
Well-Known Member
Well you know.. we all get re-initiated at some point. Not really and excuse.
I remember when Eastman released their new tanker boot. It wasn't the boot itself that was discussed, it was its price. 4 pages long lol.
Personally I don't think their prices are that high at all. Compared to 5* they are but compared to other (first world) high end makers they're not.
ties70
Well-Known Member
My interest in jackets - while always buzzing on a certain level - does not fully align with my need to talk about them.
The latter seems to follow a sine wave: Sometimes I feel the need to post three or four times a day, sometimes I "have nothing to tell" for a week or two.
What I have noticed recently, is, that this wave length seems to get longer these days...
I sometimes think that this forum - at least for me - is showing some "wear and tear":
We only seem to have a certain amount of members who could deliver quality content with a constant frequency. I will not name anyone specifically, but we have members who still awe me with their frequent flow of pics of originals. Others are known for their written content and their kind (sometimes wise) words and they are the civilized heart and soul of this forum. And some others have the enthusiasm to collect and preserve information and make them available to the rest of us.
Well done, gentlemen (and one special lady
), and thank you!
And then there is the other side of the medal:
The SPAM, the one-time-wonders with their 80s mall jackets (and no, it's not elitist to expect them to do their own research before registering here), the crusades against certain manufacturers (on both ends of the food-chain).
But it would definitely be unfair to blame it all on VLJ:
At 53, I am still full of different interests, and splitting time between family, travelling, guitars and (newly re-discovered) modeling aircraft is not an easy task
Ties
The latter seems to follow a sine wave: Sometimes I feel the need to post three or four times a day, sometimes I "have nothing to tell" for a week or two.
What I have noticed recently, is, that this wave length seems to get longer these days...
I sometimes think that this forum - at least for me - is showing some "wear and tear":
We only seem to have a certain amount of members who could deliver quality content with a constant frequency. I will not name anyone specifically, but we have members who still awe me with their frequent flow of pics of originals. Others are known for their written content and their kind (sometimes wise) words and they are the civilized heart and soul of this forum. And some others have the enthusiasm to collect and preserve information and make them available to the rest of us.
Well done, gentlemen (and one special lady
), and thank you!And then there is the other side of the medal:
The SPAM, the one-time-wonders with their 80s mall jackets (and no, it's not elitist to expect them to do their own research before registering here), the crusades against certain manufacturers (on both ends of the food-chain).
But it would definitely be unfair to blame it all on VLJ:
At 53, I am still full of different interests, and splitting time between family, travelling, guitars and (newly re-discovered) modeling aircraft is not an easy task
Ties
Kermit3D
Well-Known Member
I'm still new. I have been present on the forum since september 2020, and I must say that in three years, I have not observed any major changes.
I really like this forum as it is. And I won't be able to say if it was better before.
Even if my "youth" within the forum does not really make me legitimate to say that, I must say that there is a disconnect between the name of the forum and what it really is.
Vintage Leather Jacket Forum : let's imagine that this is a forum dedicated to old leather jackets (and their history). Civilian jackets, military jackets, work jackets, motorcycle jackets,...
In the facts :
99% of the topics covered concern military jackets
95% of topics covered concern American jackets
90% of the topics covered concern the A-2 and M-422/G-1
80% of the topics covered concern reproductions.
(edit: don't take these numbers as an exact reality, but it gives a certain idea)
It's completely normal that we regularly have new members who come to us asking for information on mall jackets from the 80s. They are in fact vintage leather jackets.
I don't know if it would be possible to rename the forum? once again I'm not really legitimate to talk about this, but it seems to me that there is an identity problem on this forum. And a lot of new members come here and find that they're not where they thought they were.
Regarding the subject of vintage jackets
There was probably a lot of discussion about vintage jackets 10 or 15 years ago. But it seems to me that it can be explained quite easily.
These vintage jackets are by definition an “exhaustible” resource. Original jackets become fragile and difficult to wear. These jackets are gaining more and more value (monetary and historical). They are more difficult to find and more and more expensive. Vintage jackets are often stored in collections, out of sight, to preserve them as much as possible. Only a few M-422/G-1s and sometimes A-2s are still worn on rare occasions but who still wears a original sheepskin jackets ? Most are far too fragile.
15 or 20 years ago it was probably still possible, but don't be fooled, these jackets are not eternal. We see less and less and we will see less and less.
I'm always very excited when I see a beautiful vintage jacket on the forum, but it's going to become more and more rare.
To continue to keep this hobby alive, many turn to reproductions (I am one of them). I think this trend is inevitable.
Concerning the disenchantment with ELC
I think it is extremely important for everyone to keep this in mind : When we say bad things about a jacket in one way or another, we run the risk of “hurting” someone who owns the jacket in question. We sometimes save a long time to afford a jacket that is sometimes very expensive... and I can understand that it is very unpleasant to hear other people denigrate the jacket.
But it has to go both ways. As Burt says, it's a forum for sharing opinions, and sometimes you have to take a step back.
I don't want a forum where we are all just there to congratulate each other, without having any constructive debate.
Now regarding my own opinion, I have always found it strange to be a "fan" of a brand. It is by definition a non-objective opinion. Let's not get into an "Apple" vs "Samsung" phone war.
All brands have good and bad points (even Goodwear !). I think we are above all here to share a hobby. Let's not take ourselves too seriously and everything will be fine.
I really like this forum as it is. And I won't be able to say if it was better before.
Even if my "youth" within the forum does not really make me legitimate to say that, I must say that there is a disconnect between the name of the forum and what it really is.
Vintage Leather Jacket Forum : let's imagine that this is a forum dedicated to old leather jackets (and their history). Civilian jackets, military jackets, work jackets, motorcycle jackets,...
In the facts :
99% of the topics covered concern military jackets
95% of topics covered concern American jackets
90% of the topics covered concern the A-2 and M-422/G-1
80% of the topics covered concern reproductions.
(edit: don't take these numbers as an exact reality, but it gives a certain idea)
It's completely normal that we regularly have new members who come to us asking for information on mall jackets from the 80s. They are in fact vintage leather jackets.
I don't know if it would be possible to rename the forum? once again I'm not really legitimate to talk about this, but it seems to me that there is an identity problem on this forum. And a lot of new members come here and find that they're not where they thought they were.
Regarding the subject of vintage jackets
There was probably a lot of discussion about vintage jackets 10 or 15 years ago. But it seems to me that it can be explained quite easily.
These vintage jackets are by definition an “exhaustible” resource. Original jackets become fragile and difficult to wear. These jackets are gaining more and more value (monetary and historical). They are more difficult to find and more and more expensive. Vintage jackets are often stored in collections, out of sight, to preserve them as much as possible. Only a few M-422/G-1s and sometimes A-2s are still worn on rare occasions but who still wears a original sheepskin jackets ? Most are far too fragile.
15 or 20 years ago it was probably still possible, but don't be fooled, these jackets are not eternal. We see less and less and we will see less and less.
I'm always very excited when I see a beautiful vintage jacket on the forum, but it's going to become more and more rare.
To continue to keep this hobby alive, many turn to reproductions (I am one of them). I think this trend is inevitable.
Concerning the disenchantment with ELC
I think it is extremely important for everyone to keep this in mind : When we say bad things about a jacket in one way or another, we run the risk of “hurting” someone who owns the jacket in question. We sometimes save a long time to afford a jacket that is sometimes very expensive... and I can understand that it is very unpleasant to hear other people denigrate the jacket.
But it has to go both ways. As Burt says, it's a forum for sharing opinions, and sometimes you have to take a step back.
I don't want a forum where we are all just there to congratulate each other, without having any constructive debate.
Now regarding my own opinion, I have always found it strange to be a "fan" of a brand. It is by definition a non-objective opinion. Let's not get into an "Apple" vs "Samsung" phone war.
All brands have good and bad points (even Goodwear !). I think we are above all here to share a hobby. Let's not take ourselves too seriously and everything will be fine.
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Enigma1938
Well-Known Member
Wise words Guillaume, wise words. I totally second your thoughts
Kermit3D
Well-Known Member
One last note regarding the name of the forum.
It seems to me that if the forum had a name more suited to its content, then perhaps we would attract more new members looking for this specific content (vintage and repro flight jackets).
=> potentially really sharp new members with a lot of knowledge to share.
It seems to me that if the forum had a name more suited to its content, then perhaps we would attract more new members looking for this specific content (vintage and repro flight jackets).
=> potentially really sharp new members with a lot of knowledge to share.
mulceber
Moderator
"The Flight Jacket Forum" perhaps? (just floating an idea - I've no idea if it's worth doing.)
Pa12
Well-Known Member
I like it. There can be off shoots for others, as there are now. I’m even newer (under 2 years) so I have no idea what has changed, better or worse. I ll leave that up to the people who know. I originally joined to find info on a Platon I was going to buy off eBay as I’d never heard of them. At the time I thought Elc was the only game in town. Well, 2 Platon’s have come and gone since but I’m still here(with my goodwears
) and still enjoy the forum. Not being an expert I probably don’t have any worthwhile input, but I enjoy reading it all and love that it’s international. Sometimes it’s just nice chatting with someone on the other side of the planet.
mulceber
Moderator
Agreed - a name doesn't have to be a 1:1 description of everything you do, just something that conveys the general idea. One potential downside is that I doubt "Flight Jacket Forum" would be as easily found on google as our current name - which might be a good thing or bad thing. We likely wouldn't have as many people coming in with mall jackets, but I also doubt abria13 (the guy with the B-6) would have found us if we were called the "Flight Jacket Forum." It might be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
(and just to reiterate - I'm not wearing my mod hat right now, and this isn't a serious proposal. If there were a broad consensus that we wanted to re-name the forum and we all agreed on a name, THEN it might be worth proposing it to Nathan, but for the moment we're just spit-balling ideas to jump-start activity on the board).
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bseal
Well-Known Member
"The Outlet Mall Jacket Price Guide and Folks Who Generally Prefer Good Wear but Like 5 * Just As Well. A Forum for Connoisseurs.”
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Pa12
Well-Known Member
I guess when you think about it vintage leather jacket does sound fairly broad. I think I originally found the forum by googling A-2 jacket.
Enigma1938
Well-Known Member
Maybe simply "Vintage Flight Jacket Forum" ?
Well a 20 years old eastman ist already vintage too so the name would cover repros too
Well a 20 years old eastman ist already vintage too so the name would cover repros too
B-Man2
Well-Known Member
The guys with more seniority here such as Grant and Vic can fact check me on this, but years before I joined this forum, it was known as “ The Dead Horse Society” . Not sure how that came into being, but it featured mostly original A2’s and Flight jackets in general. Point being is that the name didn’t really relate to the subjects or the topics being presented . Thus the name change to VLJ, which at the time was a big step forward made to advance the agenda of the forum and to be more inclusive of vintage leather jackets of ALL types and styles. Over the years military flight jackets dominated the discussions and civilian vintage leather jackets got left behind . Maybe we as a group don’t really need a name change, but rather to rethink the original purpose for the name change to VLJ and be more inclusive toward civilian vintage leather jackets . Just a thought.
ZuZu
Well-Known Member
Show an example of an Eastman with a genuine mouton collar. You can't.
