Too many options for one man. A-2 options discussed.

[mulceber]

For sizing A-2s, the general rule of thumb is that you go with the chest measurement, rounding up to the closest size (in this case, 44), and then go up an additional size. You should probably go for either a 44 or a 46, depending on how fitted you want the jacket to be when you get it.

Also and I apologize for the silly question but how does A-2s normally behave in time. Do they rather have a tendency to shrink or to expand morphing on the owner's shape?

Mostly shrink. Most tanneries, including Victoria, the source for Platon's leather, stretch their horsehide as part of the tanning process (in order to get more bang for their buck). As soon as your jacket gets hit by a decent rain storm, it'll shrink up a bit. My experience has been that you'll lose an inch from the chest measurement, and about half an inch from the other measurements. For this reason, from your description of your measurements, I'd be inclined to advise you to order a 46. A 44 might work too though. It all depends on whether you want to start out with 4" of breathing room and end up with 3", or start with 6" and end up with 5".

 

[Wedge417]

Wedge-

Like many here, I was in your situation. I bought a goatskin Avirex A-2 in 1988 and it has served me well for over 30 years. When Covid hit & I was forced to shelter in place, I watched every episode of "12 O'clock High" and got the bug for a seal horsehide A-2. This led me to VLJ and to the point where you are now.

Thanks to the knowledge & experience of all of the members, I was exposed to many of the options & different paths available and the benefits & pitfalls of each. I wanted a seal horsehide A-2 that fit well, was reasonably priced and is available immediately. As much as I would want a GW, ELC, Aero, BK or Platon, my priorities, values & common sense would not allow me to spend the money & time needed to acquire one as well as risk the uncertainty of doing business with a foreign company unfamiliar to me. I have been down this road many times with custom bespoke guns, knives & bicycles and have learned many lessons, both good & bad.

After all of my research, the logical path was to reset my criteria and order a custom A-2 from Five Star- a goatskin Doniger. It was a nice jacket, but not THE ONE. I ordered another FS- a goatskin Werber. Same story: It was a nice jacket, but not THE ONE. Shawn & Five Star then came out with their best & most accurate pattern, based on an original- a goatskin Dubow, so I ordered one. It looked & fit the best of all three. Same story, yet again: It was a nice jacket, but not THE ONE. There was something missing and I was wanting more. At this point, I told myself that I should just be happy and enjoy the FS Dubow. I was done with flight jackets, reduced my activity on VLJ to lurking and moved on to more fulfilling things in my life.

About a week or so ago, I noticed @Silver Surfer 's ad for his Aero 38-1711-P, one of my "Grail" patterns that checked all but two of my boxes (I wasn't going to spend $1200 with an overseas company, wait for it to be produced & deal with all of the hassles & uncertainty with shipping & duties.) SS's jacket was nearly new, in my size range, here in the US & priced very reasonably. After much (but not too much) deliberation, I took a calculated risk, made him an offer & received the jacket in 2 days.

The jacket was just as described and fits me reasonably well in its new, stiff, unworn condition and will be perfect when it gets broken in & the hide softens. My adventure has a storybook ending- I now have THE ONE in nearly new & unworn condition, it fits, was reasonably priced & I received it immediately. The journey has ended as my search is now over.

What I can tell you from my experience is: if you are patient and keep trying, you will eventually find what you are looking for. Let your desires & measurements be known to the VLJ membership. They are a very helpful bunch, will look out for you & help you find YOUR ONE. They just might even have it hanging in their closet, waiting for a new owner.

Best of luck in your search!

JimO

View attachment 65429

Thank you very much for your input and support. I have seen your jacket in the thread and it looks amazing! I have had a look at aero as I've a few of their accessories. Be sure to post more of your jacket when you've broken in. I'm sure it'll look terrific!

 

[ausreenactor]

Wedge-

Like many here, I was in your situation. I bought a goatskin Avirex A-2 in 1988 and it has served me well for over 30 years. When Covid hit & I was forced to shelter in place, I watched every episode of "12 O'clock High" and got the bug for a seal horsehide A-2. This led me to VLJ and to the point where you are now.

Thanks to the knowledge & experience of all of the members, I was exposed to many of the options & different paths available and the benefits & pitfalls of each. I wanted a seal horsehide A-2 that fit well, was reasonably priced and is available immediately. As much as I would want a GW, ELC, Aero, BK or Platon, my priorities, values & common sense would not allow me to spend the money & time needed to acquire one as well as risk the uncertainty of doing business with a foreign company unfamiliar to me. I have been down this road many times with custom bespoke guns, knives & bicycles and have learned many lessons, both good & bad.

After all of my research, the logical path was to reset my criteria and order a custom A-2 from Five Star- a goatskin Doniger. It was a nice jacket, but not THE ONE. I ordered another FS- a goatskin Werber. Same story: It was a nice jacket, but not THE ONE. Shawn & Five Star then came out with their best & most accurate pattern, based on an original- a goatskin Dubow, so I ordered one. It looked & fit the best of all three. Same story, yet again: It was a nice jacket, but not THE ONE. There was something missing and I was wanting more. At this point, I told myself that I should just be happy and enjoy the FS Dubow. I was done with flight jackets, reduced my activity on VLJ to lurking and moved on to more fulfilling things in my life.

About a week or so ago, I noticed @Silver Surfer 's ad for his Aero 38-1711-P, one of my "Grail" patterns that checked all but two of my boxes (I wasn't going to spend $1200 with an overseas company, wait for it to be produced & deal with all of the hassles & uncertainty with shipping & duties.) SS's jacket was nearly new, in my size range, here in the US & priced very reasonably. After much (but not too much) deliberation, I took a calculated risk, made him an offer & received the jacket in 2 days.

The jacket was just as described and fits me reasonably well in its new, stiff, unworn condition and will be perfect when it gets broken in & the hide softens. My adventure has a storybook ending- I now have THE ONE in nearly new & unworn condition, it fits, was reasonably priced & I received it immediately. The journey has ended as my search is now over.

What I can tell you from my experience is: if you are patient and keep trying, you will eventually find what you are looking for. Let your desires & measurements be known to the VLJ membership. They are a very helpful bunch, will look out for you & help you find YOUR ONE. They just might even have it hanging in their closet, waiting for a new owner.

Best of luck in your search!

JimO

View attachment 65429

Looking good!

 

[Wedge417]

Just for information purpose, my current jacket's measurements are as such:

Shoulder to shoulder 19' (18 7/8)

pit to pit 21' 1/2

Back length 25'

Sleeve length 27' (don't know what went wrong there. These long sleeves are mighty uncomfortable)

 

[Wedge417]

The jacket is labeled as a size 38 And it fits me like that. Very roomy (literally everywhere, shoulders, waist, chest, back...) Very boxy see the shoulder pictures. It's so roomy I can wear a North Sea Clothing submariner underneath.

Oh and When I leave it open it does this weird turtle shell effect.

Needless to say I'm not satisfied with how it fits as it's not got that athletic ww2 picture look.

 

[B-Man2]

Shorten the sleeves about 2 inches. Everything else looks good . You’ll be much happier with the fit.

 

[Wedge417]

I'm posting this in regards to London Cabbie's Platon Dubow jacket measurements.

https://www.vintageleatherjackets.o...-a-2-jacket-review-and-pics.22180/post-282275

It had me thinking the Platon Dubow 42R might be just about the size for me. But the 44 would be a sure bet. But I really want to avoid ordering a jacket that is too large once again, especially sleeve wise.

But as one of the musketeers rightfully mentioned, the jacket is likely to shrink...right?

 

[B-Man2]

I'm posting this in regards to London Cabbie's Platon Dubow jacket measurements.

https://www.vintageleatherjackets.o...-a-2-jacket-review-and-pics.22180/post-282275

It had me thinking the Platon Dubow 42R might be just about the size for me. But the 44 would be a sure bet. But I really want to avoid ordering a jacket that is too large once again, especially sleeve wise.

But as one of the musketeers rightfully mentioned, the jacket is likely to shrink...right?

The sleeves of a new Horsehide jacket crease up and will shorten by about 1/2 to 3/4 s of an inch over time .

 

[Brettafett]

Its all very subjective, and hard to answer definitively.

From what you've posted above, Id say 42.

The Dubows shoulders appear to measure a touch less than most other makers for the same size, but that can be deceiving.
Theres actually more room in the shoulders than some other contracts for the same size, due to the unique Dubow pattern.

John Chapman, "Another detail unique to Dubow is that they made the sleeves quite wide at the top, and then the back panel more narrow than most A-2 makers. The wider sleeve tops more than make up for the more narrow back panel, so the jacket is generally more comfortable to wear than most other A-2 contracts. "

I am circa 5'10 160 pounds/ 73kgs approx 40" chest trim & slim frame with broadish shoulders and my 42 fits perfectly (with a smidgen of room to layer a light sweater).
Length for me are good, but I was extremely lucky enough to get a bit of length added to my jacket, which appears to have been a one-off... But for sure a 42R would be on the short side for me.

Ive found that sleeves tend to shorten a touch over time, when creases form at the elbows and at the pits.
Depends on the leather me thinks. Ive had some jackets shorten by a full inch!

Again, this may differ for other chaps, different makers, different leather, etc, but Ive not had many jackets 'shrink' in any noticeable way, even after years of wear and multiple rain showers.
If anything they relax and form to your particular body (I did have an ELC that shrunk one full size after giving it a proper soaking, but that was not natural wear and I dont recommend it )
Again, just my experience.

 

[MediumMech]

As @Brettafett says, it's subjective. Trust your own experience, and if you know what you have feels too big for you, then don't be talked into ordering something with larger measurements!

 

[MediumMech]

Also, I just want to point out that a ratio of a 19" shoulder to a pit-to-pit of 21.5" would be very unusual in a more "correct" A-2 cut. Most (though I dare not say all), patterns would have a narrower shoulder with that pit-to-pit, so keep that in mind - and you loss flexibility with shoulders that are over-narrow. Just one more bit to factor in!

 

[mulceber]

Yeah, I typically wear a pit-to-pit of 22.5, and the shoulder width on them is 18 - 18.5 tops.

 

[Greg Gale]

Not to mention the sleeve length. 27 inches would belong on a size 48 or 50

 

[Micawber]

It really is possible to tie yourself up in knots pondering over this. I would question the 'WW2 athletic' look as fit of issued garments was all over the place as has been said here many times before.
One of Platon's offerings would serve you well. Sleeve length will shorten a bit as creases develop but if they are still too long after six months of hard wear in all weather's it's no big deal to get them shortened.
The hide should mould to your shape, but only if you wear it properly out in all weather's and treat it like the work garment they were and not a precious ornament like some are apt to do. They will relax and stretch in places and shrink a little in others.
Going by your photos the jacket you have will pass for a WW2 fit, but it looks hardly broken in - just wear the hell out of it in the wet then let it dry on you. Wear it constantly and beat the newness out of it, wear it hard and don't be frightened of scuffs and scratches - then and only then will you start to get the look.
If that one still feels too roomy after wearing it in multiple downpours then get the next size down but believe me this stuff rarely if ever has 'the look' straight out of the box, well they do but only if you are keen to maintain the just issued, fresh new cadet image.

 

[Brettafett]

Also, US A are notorious for their 'own' patterns and sizing conventions, like Cockpit and Gibson & Barnes.
So, not great to compare with other makers, but its good to have something measure up as a reference...

 

[Micawber]

Also, US A are notorious for their 'own' patterns and sizing conventions, like Cockpit and Gibson & Barnes.
So, not great to compare with other makers, but its good to have something measure up as a reference...

Yes that's very true about their sizing but it being a good reference for measuring.

Sorry Wedge, reading it again my post may come across as being a bit terse, it wasn't meant to be but the novelty of doing battle with the predictive text on my phone tends to wear off after the umpteenth time it decided it knew better than me what I was typing lol! I'm on the Mac now so am back to my usual sweetness and light

Now, I bought a 44" Dubow from Platon not long after he started making them, it was a cancelled order that I was lucky enough to hit upon. At the time I was a whole lot fitter and more active and as a rule most of my repros get worn harder than the average. Although new I wore that jacket doing all sorts out in the open around the place, after getting wet in the rain more than once it quickly took on a lot of creasing and character and did in fact shrink a tad, as most will if you get them soaking wet often enough. My son has that jacket now and wears it well.

 

[MediumMech]

As @Brettafett says, it's subjective. Trust your own experience, and if you know what you have feels too big for you, then don't be talked into ordering something with larger measurements!

Reading this again, it sounds a bit aggressive

The background to that comment is that for my first A-2, I took measurements based on a number of jackets I already owned that fit me about right. But after talking to the company sales specialist, I ended up convinced that I needed to order one size up from what I intuitively felt was right for me. I ended up with a nice jacket, with a passable WWII fit, but it was predictable larger than what I truly wanted! I got lost in all the recommendations and professional advice, and forgot to count my own sensibilities and preferences as truly important data. Just encouraging you to stay true to what you want, even as you gather great advice from company reps and the good folks here!

 

[Wedge417]

Yes that's very true about their sizing but it being a good reference for measuring.

Sorry Wedge, reading it again my post may come across as being a bit terse, it wasn't meant to be but the novelty of doing battle with the predictive text on my phone tends to wear off after the umpteenth time it decided it knew better than me what I was typing lol! I'm on the Mac now so am back to my usual sweetness and light

Now, I bought a 44" Dubow from Platon not long after he started making them, it was a cancelled order that I was lucky enough to hit upon. At the time I was a whole lot fitter and more active and as a rule most of my repros get worn harder than the average. Although new I wore that jacket doing all sorts out in the open around the place, after getting wet in the rain more than once it quickly took on a lot of creasing and character and did in fact shrink a tad, as most will if you get them soaking wet often enough. My son has that jacket now and wears it well.

HA! don't worry that auto-correct always gets me mad as well. Damn technology!

 

[Wedge417]

Thanks to everybody for all the worthy advice. I'll drop an email to Platon this weekend to get the process going and hopefully get a jacket in 6 or so months.

In the meantime as advised I'll leave a deposit with GW to get that other A-2 running.

All that talk about sizes was really helpful as I can fully appreciate A-2's tend to be tricky from maker to maker. Here begins my journey into learning more about this iconic jacket and its contemporary offsprings.

Also it got me to bounce on some of the comments made. I'm a military historian as part of other things, and it's really interesting to see all the effort we all put both makers and wearers in trying to find the most accurate and best fitting garment. As opposed to WW2 aircrew men who were most likely rushed into picking the best fitting size, sometimes quite arbitrary as some period pictures demonstrate. (Things haven't much changed as fellow active and retired service men might remember from their kit issue process)

 

[Brettafett]

Good to hear Wedge

Your Platon Dubow (which is/ should be true to original WW2 sizing) will give you a great idea of jacket fit and measurements for your GW.