Question regarding awarding of the Knights Cross.

[B-Man2]

I asked this in another thread but I thought that I’d post it here for more exposure.

All of the pilots pictured below won the “Knights Cross” some with oak leaves, some with swords and oak leaves, some with oak leaves, swords and diamonds, which I think was the highest award given .
Were there specific numbers of aircraft that they had to shoot down to qualify for each award? I assume that there were. Does anyone know what those numbers were?

 

[Pilot]

Hello Burt, hello all.
Thanks for asking.
No it was not only depending on how many enemies one shot down ( the German laguage never used the word „kill“ ( Töten/Umbringen) for a down enemy… but 1 „Abschuss“ / 2 or more „Abschüsse“).
The KC and its several upgrades came year by year.. eg 1939 only plain KC‘s… 1940 if one deserved it he received the oakleaves, 1941 the swords to it etc..1945 the diamonds..
However, the youngsters in the war had to start from scratch and deserve it…
Furthermore, it was easier to receice a KC in 1940 than in 1943 and or later.
To deserve it and its upgrades the wearer had to show courage, efficiency and of course a large amount of successful activities/actions.
Destroying ( Abschiessen # not killing ) over 10 tanks in the battle of the buldge was also worth a KC. Several tank /Flak crews in the Afrikakorps ( amongst others ) received their KC for less.
I am aware it sounds complicated, and it was, but it was not only based on the „ Abschüsse „

 

[B-Man2]

Hello Burt, hello all.
Thanks for asking.
No it was not only depending on how many enemies one shot down ( the German laguage never used the word „kill“ ( Töten/Umbringen) for a down enemy… but 1 „Abschuss“ / 2 or more „Abschüsse“).
The KC and its several upgrades came year by year.. eg 1939 only plain KC‘s… 1940 if one deserved it he received the oakleaves, 1941 the swords to it etc..1945 the diamonds..
However, the youngsters in the war had to start from scratch and deserve it…
Furthermore, it was easier to receice a KC in 1940 than in 1943 and or later.
To deserve it and its upgrades the wearer had to show courage, efficiency and of course a large amount of successful activities/actions.
Destroying ( Abschiessen # not killing ) over 10 tanks in the battle of the buldge was also worth a KC. Several tank /Flak crews in the Afrikakorps ( amongst others ) received their KC for less.
I am aware it sounds complicated, and it was, but it was not only based on the „ Abschüsse „

Thank you Brice … it’s a subject that I wondered about. Appreciate your response.

 

[Pilot]

Thank you Brice … it’s a subject that I wondered about. Appreciate your response.

Another example, H.U. Rudel did not shoot down many enemy aircrafts but mainly tanks and the Marrat a Soviet battleship ( plus others )… he was a LW pilot and was awarded the highest KC version ( whilst he even lost the half of a leg ).

 

[ZuZu]

As Lorenzo posted before- all your answers here pretty much:

Luftwaffe Score System

 

[ZuZu]

Another example, H.U. Rudel did not shoot down many enemy aircrafts but mainly tanks and the Marrat a Soviet battleship ( plus others )… he was a LW pilot and was awarded the highest KC version ( whilst he even lost the half of a leg ).

Rudel was an ace flying a Stuka! Hahaha!

These guys were unbelievable. Allowed to do so maybe Americans could have kinda sorta matched them- but as it was there was no one in any air force ever who came close to the Luftwaffe aces!

I got into a long long discussion about this on the old forum but the counterargument was always- SOUR GRAPES!

 

[MauldinFan]

A big reason the Germans chalked up so many victories in the air was once an Allied pilot became an ace, they would usually send him home to teach others how to do the same thing.
Luftwaffe pilots were usually in it for the duration or until they got killed or otherwise unable to fly anymore.

 

[ZuZu]

A big reason the Germans chalked up so many victories in the air was once an Allied pilot became an ace, they would usually send him home to teach others how to do the same thing.
Luftwaffe pilots were usually in it for the duration or until they got killed or otherwise unable to fly anymore.

Very true- but that being said what happened is that Germans became the only people ever to reach the incredible strata of 100+ kills. Many have tried to detract from this but logically they occupied a space where no others could reach. All the coolest stuff fighter pilots ever did was done by Germans except maybe shoot down jets. Give the devil his due!

 

[Shanghai-Mayne]

Helmet Lent , night fighter ace , won 100 victories on Bf110 and Ju88.


His wife is a Russian , certainly not a textbook die hard nazi (like Rudel).

 

[Pilot]

Helmet Lent , night fighter ace , won 100 victories on Bf110 and Ju88.

View attachment 164283
His wife is a Russian , certainly not a textbook die hard nazi (like Rudel).

View attachment 164285

He got it all incl. the diamonds, but had „only“ 110 confirmed „ Abschüsse „ .
This low N# of „ Abschüsse „ is documenting that what the ( post war ) self elected experts established, as beeing rules/calculations/diagrams to earn the KC/OL/S/D is pure plane BS.

 

[Shanghai-Mayne]

He got it all incl. the diamonds, but had „only“ 110 confirmed „ Abschüsse „ .
This low N# of „ Abschüsse „ is documenting that what the ( post war ) self elected experts established, as beeing rules/calculations/diagrams to earn the KC/OL/S/D is pure plane BS.

Yes, difficult mission need less score for KC or other decoration (attack four engines bomber under Day light, or night time mission, etc)
Another night fighter ace, has even less score (63 victories) but, he was able to fly night time mission in Me262 (single seat one).

 

[Pilot]

Yes, difficult mission need less score for KC or other decoration (attack four engines bomber under Day light, or night time mission, etc)
Another night fighter ace, has even less score (63 victories) but, he was able to fly night time mission in Me262 (single seat one).

Absolutely correct, another evidence about the plain BS ( amongst a lot of other ) generated post war by all those self nominated experts, regarding the scores and merits etc needed to qualify.
Thanks for sharing.