Nice period photos (all jackets except A-2's)

[Emchisti]

My French great-grandfather, Lucien. He was an aerial observer during the First World War, seconded by the French army to the Serbian army. He is holding a photo of my great-grandmother, whom I knew (but not him, even though he survived the war).
I have his military pilot's logbook with his war missions (aerial photography missions of the front).

That's utterly fantastic.

 

[Shanghai-Mayne]

 

[Shanghai-Mayne]

Col. Sink

 

[Shanghai-Mayne]

 

[ZuZu]

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No one ever came close to their top guys.

 

[Shanghai-Mayne]

 

[B-Man2]

I have a question…. All of the pilots pictured above won the “Knights Cross” some with oak leaves, some with swords and oak leaves, some with oak leaves, swords and diamonds, which I think was the highest award given .
Were there specific numbers of aircraft that they had to shoot down to qualify for each award? I assume that there were. Does anyone know what those numbers were?

 

[Shanghai-Mayne]

Werner Molders , awarded his knight cross, after he became a triple ace (ww2 score ), awarded oak leaf with swords and diamonds after his total score over 100 (ww2 score).

Eric Hartmann , as another example, awarded Iron Cross 2nd class, after he scored his 15th victory. Awarded Knight Cross after his 150th victory. Awarded his diamonds after 250th victory.

 

[B-Man2]

Werner Molders , awarded his knight cross, after he became a triple ace (ww2 score ), awarded oak leaf with swords and diamonds after his total score over 100 (ww2 score).

Eric Hartmann , as another example, awarded Iron Cross 2nd class, after he scored his 15th victory. Awarded Knight Cross after his 150th victory. Awarded his diamonds after 250th victory.

Doesn’t seem like there was any consistency with regard to numbers of aircraft shot down. Molders gets the Knights Cross for being a triple ace ( 15 kills) Hartman has 15 kills and gets the Iron Cross 2nd Class. Thats a very big difference in awards .

 

[Lorenzo_l]

I have a question…. All of the pilots pictured above won the “Knights Cross” some with oak leaves, some with swords and oak leaves, some with oak leaves, swords and diamonds, which I think was the highest award given .
Were there specific numbers of aircraft that they had to shoot down to qualify for each award? I assume that there were. Does anyone know what those numbers were?

I understand that there was a points system, whereby different enemy aircraft types (fighters, multi-engine, reconnaissance, etc) were allocated a certain number of points. Each decoration was worth a number of points.
So pilots had to shoot down aircraft and accrue points that would entitle them to certain and specific decorations.
But as ZZ Top would sing, "but I might be mistakeeennn! Hao, hao, hao, hao..."

 

[B-Man2]

I understand that there was a points system, whereby different enemy aircraft types (fighters, multi-engine, reconnaissance, etc) were allocated a certain number of points. Each decoration was worth a number of points.
So pilots had to shoot down aircraft and accrue points that would entitle them to certain and specific decorations.
But as ZZ Top would sing, "but I might be mistakeeennn! Hao, hao, hao, hao..."

Thanks for that info Lorenzo.

 

[Lorenzo_l]

Thanks for that info Lorenzo.

My pleasure, Burt.
Apparently, the points system was only used in the western front, as the Germans believed it was easier to shoot down Soviet aircraft than aircraft in the western front. More information here:

Luftwaffe Score System

 

[Shanghai-Mayne]

Doesn’t seem like there was any consistency with regard to numbers of aircraft shot down. Molders gets the Knights Cross for being a triple ace ( 15 kills) Hartman has 15 kills and gets the Iron Cross 2nd Class. Thats a very big difference in awards .

There wasn’t a universal standard at all. Except German score point system, it’s about difficulty of combat environment.
German night fighter ace, Kurt Welter, his total score only 63 ( mostly British twin engines and a few four engines plane), about 150-160 total score points, and he was awarded Oak Leaf at Mar 1945.

 

[B-Man2]

My pleasure, Burt.
Apparently, the points system was only used in the western front, as the Germans believed it was easier to shoot down Soviet aircraft than aircraft in the western front. More information here:

Luftwaffe Score System

Lorenzo
That’s interesting. Looks like the German Luftwaffe was much more stringent about their pilots claiming victories than the allied air forces .

 

[Shanghai-Mayne]

 

[Shanghai-Mayne]

Lt.Col Wolferton, I was appalled by the fact , that after he get killed, nearby German troops used him and other paratroopers as shooting targets, and took his West Point ring from his body

 

[B-Man2]

Lt.Col Wolferton, I was appalled by the fact , that after he get killed, nearby German troops used him and other paratroopers as shooting targets, and took his West Point ring from his body

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[ZuZu]

It's not like we never did shit like that. One of the guys I worked with at the VA hospital told me one of their favorite jokes in Vietnam was to take a new guy out on patrol and where they knew there were VC corpses around a corner or in the brush they would jump and yell and open up on the dead body. The rookies would be scared shitless. They even named the bodies sometimes.

War makes beasts of us all.

 

[Shanghai-Mayne]

Those are ill-disciplined troops for sure.

 

[Shanghai-Mayne]

Gen. Margelov, commander of Soviet airborne force