New find current issue A-2 from The Cockpit

[Phantomfixer]

The grain...and the original post shows the smooth collar

 

[B-Man2]

Atticus
How can I tell the difference between the two ?

The leather of the originals is more seal colored and is clearly goatskin...and is typically quite grainy. I'm not sure what the civi ones are made of...it may be embossed cowhide. The linings of the originals are made of some kind of oxford cloth and are rich, brownish tan. Newer jackets have a slicker, rayon looking lining and the color is paler looking. The pocket flaps of the originals are large and nicely scallopped. The flaps on the newer jackets are VERY large and not as nicely cut.

In spite of government specs, the originals had an inside wallet pocket on the left side. Not sure if the civi jackets do or not.

I would be hesitant to buy an Orchard A-2 off the net unless the seller provided many hi-def photos...especially of the lining.

AF

Well the reason I asked all of those questions was that I had ordered a one of the Branded jackets and as it turned out it arrived today and I couldn't be happier with it. It was definitely a 92 contract jacket as it had all of the qualities you mentioned. The goat skin is definitely of the thicker type and it's bullet proof. You could easily wear this jacket in 20 degree temperatures and stay warm. The lining is exactly the way you described it and the grain in the hide is ...once again exactly as you said it should be. A great jacket for sure. Another keeper for the collection. Now if I could only be someplace a little cooler than Florida!!

 

[Phantomfixer]

My mom is in Fl for a few weeks in Lady Lake. She says it is "still chilly" LOL...she is 65ish...I pulled out my 92 dated Branded..it is good goat skin not too thick though. Lots of grain and charater a good jacket..

post some pics of yours will compare....

JZ

 

[herk115]

There has been discussion on the quality of the new Cockpit issue A-2. I found one the other day in issued but never worn condition. It has a 07 contract date. I found it to be made very nice with a very heavy yet soft hide. The hide I suppose is goatskin, areas are very grainy, yet several areas are very very smooth. The color is a nice darl chocolate color unlike the civilian Cockpit version, which is almost black...I found a new daily wear jacket!

Is the AF allowing decent looking name tags instead of that garish thing we wore on the Coopers, or did you just put that one on for the photo?

 

[herk115]

There has been discussion on the quality of the new Cockpit issue A-2. I found one the other day in issued but never worn condition. It has a 07 contract date. I found it to be made very nice with a very heavy yet soft hide. The hide I suppose is goatskin, areas are very grainy, yet several areas are very very smooth. The color is a nice darl chocolate color unlike the civilian Cockpit version, which is almost black...I found a new daily wear jacket!

How does size run with these things? Is a 44 a 44? With the Coopers we were told to order one or two sizes larger than our normal jacket or shirt size.

 

[B-Man2]

How does size run with these things? Is a 44 a 44? With the Coopers we were told to order one or two sizes larger than our normal jacket or shirt size.[/quote]


I've found that the Cockpit jackets run a little on the large size. For example I'm a size 46 in an Eastman or Good Wear.
The 44 Cockpit fits me on the large size and a 42 fits me like a wartime military trim A2.

 

[herk115]

the hide doesn't look like goat to me more like steer hide but the overall jacket looks ok, no throat latch though.

I've found one of Ebay but the sleeves look two-piece like a "mall" jacket. Is this correct? The nomenclature on the tags seems to match this jacket for the most part.

 

[B-Man2]

the hide doesn't look like goat to me more like steer hide but the overall jacket looks ok, no throat latch though.

I've found one of Ebay but the sleeves look two-piece like a "mall" jacket. Is this correct? The nomenclature on the tags seems to match this jacket for the most part.

The sleeves have an added panel as do the sides of the jacket. The military issued ones have the Defense Supply Center Philadelphia (DSCP) label sewn in under the contract label.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-NWOT-Mens-U ... 20ce9a3e35

 

[herk115]

the hide doesn't look like goat to me more like steer hide but the overall jacket looks ok, no throat latch though.

I've found one of Ebay but the sleeves look two-piece like a "mall" jacket. Is this correct? The nomenclature on the tags seems to match this jacket for the most part.

The sleeves have an added panel as do the sides of the jacket. The military issued ones have the Defense Supply Center Philadelphia (DSCP) label sewn in under the contract label.

Yes, this one has the DSCP label.

 

[herk115]

There has been discussion on the quality of the new Cockpit issue A-2. I found one the other day in issued but never worn condition. It has a 07 contract date. I found it to be made very nice with a very heavy yet soft hide. The hide I suppose is goatskin, areas are very grainy, yet several areas are very very smooth. The color is a nice darl chocolate color unlike the civilian Cockpit version, which is almost black...I found a new daily wear jacket!

I have to second jzist's observations here. My copy of the same jacket arrived today and I couldn't be happier. Size 44 and it fits me like a glove (modern size 44). This is a far superior jacket to the Cooper. The only difference I can see between mine and his is that mine seems to have a slight greenish cast to the hide (may be my indoor fluorescent lights), and the hide doesn't much look like goat. In fact it looks like horse but is probably cow. Heavy but very supple hide. Even some shoulder roll which I like and not the (American) football linebacker look about the shoulders found on the Coopers. The downside: like most Avirex/Cockpit products, and cheaper repros in general, it suffers from the two glaring errors that give it away as a non-authentic WWII repro: the oversized pockets and the epaulets too far forward. Other than that, I am very happy. I, too have found a new daily wearer, and also a uniform item (many vets, myself included, like to maintain at least one wearable uniform. I chose my flying togs for that). The construction of this jacket is excellent and I agree that it is "bulletproof."

All that said, I wish not to belittle the Cooper. It, too, is a real A-2, and it is what I earned and was issued. But it looks like the USAF has learned (or re-learned) a bit about the A-2 and made good some of the initial errors.

If someone can tutor me (again), I'll post some pics.

 

[B-Man2]

Congrats Herk !!

It's good to have another convert to the currently issued line of A2's . I think as time goes on more people will appreciate the newer A2's once they try them out. Enjoy the jacket.

 

[herk115]

Congrats Herk !!

It's good to have another convert to the currently issued line of A2's . I think as time goes on more people will appreciate the newer A2's once they try them out. Enjoy the jacket.

Thanks, B-Man! I think once the group (and I) accepted the fact a year or two ago that the modern-issue USAF A-2s (Cooper, et. al) are indeed "real" A-2s, their stock rose dramatically. I keep my Coopers in my collection but I'm glad to have this new one so as to have a current USAF flying uniform (along with those green boots USAF crews wear now). I've always cherished my Cooper and was so glad when it achieved "legitimate" status. But this new A-2 is such a dramatic improvement it's just a joy to wear. Like, right now, It's 80 degrees this evening in Central California, and I'm wearing it, and loving it!

I'd still like some words on the name tag issue. Are the embroidered name tags now worn on the current A-2s, or are the larger leather name tags still required? I'm kind of out of touch on this one. I hope the embroidered are allowed...I'd love to wear my "Hollywood Guard" name tag on this jacket.

 

[B-Man2]

Herk

The embossed leather name tags are still being used with the parent command patch on the right placard.

 

[Phantomfixer]

There has been discussion on the quality of the new Cockpit issue A-2. I found one the other day in issued but never worn condition. It has a 07 contract date. I found it to be made very nice with a very heavy yet soft hide. The hide I suppose is goatskin, areas are very grainy, yet several areas are very very smooth. The color is a nice darl chocolate color unlike the civilian Cockpit version, which is almost black...I found a new daily wear jacket!

Is the AF allowing decent looking name tags instead of that garish thing we wore on the Coopers, or did you just put that one on for the photo?

Hey Herk,
This name tag I had made for me at the military clothing shop. It has my MX badge and name, no rank, so I can wear it comfortably around base without the guys busting my chops for wearing Mil issue in civvies. I wear them on my CWU series that I was issued and the A-2s that I bought.
Was a F-4E Crew Chief, then F-16s at Ramstein,, followed by heavies at Dover..

I grew up watching the C-130s out of New Castle DE. I lived on a farm about 10 SM off of the 23 radial of the Du Pont VOR..so those guys would come buzzin over the farm in a standard 3 ship back in the 70s....Loved watching them fly over...
you sir have a great office

John

 

[Phantomfixer]

Herk "I'd still like some words on the name tag issue. Are the embroidered name tags now worn on the current A-2s, or are the larger leather name tags still required? I'm kind of out of touch on this one. I hope the embroidered are allowed...I'd love to wear my "Hollywood Guard" name tag on this jacket".


Well when we were out in the "system" anything was fair game. I saw all kinds of unofficial name tags and patches worn away from home station..my previous post answers the specific question about my name tag though...

JZ