I see where 'Joe is coming from; like I said elsewhere it all got a bit 'silly' when a posting that had nothing to do with GW invariably was led to that make, even on the 'vintage' section. I am sure balance will be resumed, if there had been the internet/forum around when the likes of ELC first started it would have probably been the same in their favour. As the proud owner of the very first 'test' Doniger from GW I appreciate their virtues but in no way have they made all other makers redundant and I am sure John wouldn't want blind worship where constructive criticism would be more beneficial; GW are in their infancy and not all jackets will be 'perfect', some of the hides may not necessarily be up to scratch and as John makes more so he learns more; it is a good thing that democratic comments can be made and disagreements aired without backlash or personal rebuke.