LVC 501s

[Grant]

Here's a quick photo (sorry for the lousy quality of my iPhone camera) of my LVC '55 501xx made with Japanese denim. The denim is far superior to any of the Cone Mills stuff I've seen used.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Here's a quick photo (sorry for the lousy quality of my iPhone camera) of my LVC '55 501xx made with Japanese denim. The denim is far superior to any of the Cone Mills stuff I've seen used.

Grant no doubt its good denim but the cone mill denim is accurate to originals. And according to Paul T the new stuff (08/09) is really accurate. They got old looms up and running and are running denim the same way it was run a half century ago and they have gone back through the archives with samples and documentation are making the same weaves and weights for the years being reproduced.

Heres my LVC 47s

My 1933s

 

[Grant]

Hey Allen,
Sorry, got to disagree with you and Paul. The denim the Japanese used way back when they made these are far superior to the stuff Cone Mills was used. Next time we meet up I'll bring these along so you can see them in person. Next to a pair of original 50's denim it's hard to tell them apart. Almost as accurate as the denim Edwin used a few years back on their '44 Lee's - killer left hand twill denim with that slight green cast to the denim you see on original Lee's.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Hey Allen,
Sorry, got to disagree with you and Paul. The denim the Japanese used way back when they made these are far superior to the stuff Cone Mills was used. Next time we meet up I'll bring these along so you can see them in person. Next to a pair of original 50's denim it's hard to tell them apart. Almost as accurate as the denim Edwin used a few years back on their '44 Lee's - killer left hand twill denim with that slight green cast to the denim you see on original Lee's.

Hey Grant its great denim NO DOUBT but I had a chance to see a pair of NWTs original 55s next to a pair of raw LVC 55s and you couldn't tell the difference in weight or texture. They looked as if they could have came off the same line.

As far as Paul T goes did you see the Cone Mills thread? He's been through the records at both Cone Mills and Levis and written a lot on the subject and seen the Levis archives.

 

[Grant]

Hey Allen,
I too have seen dry original 40's & 50's 501xx as well. What I'm talking about is how this Japanese denim wears and fades which is much closer to original denim. It's hard to explain but once you see em you'll know what I'm talking about. This denim is looks much more like vintage denim than any of the Cone Mills stuff. Again, sorry to disagree.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Hey Allen,
I too have seen dry original 40's & 50's 501xx as well. What I'm talking about is how this Japanese denim wears and fades which is much closer to original denim. It's hard to explain but once you see em you'll know what I'm talking about. This denim is looks much more like vintage denim than any of the Cone Mills stuff. Again, sorry to disagree.

Thats interesting only because cone mills is the place that supplied Levis and is still supplying them and has all the old records and who knows the samples of the original denim that hey have (which they talk about in the interview in the link) and all the die info and apparently they are using that info and old looms to now make the denim for all the US made LVCs. According to cone they are now using that info to make denim for the LVC made in USA line. They are also selling denim to some Japanese companies according to cone.

I think the denim that LVC used for a lot of their repros a few years back was not very good. There were some that were better than others. The denim from 08 09 made in USA raw denim is the stuff that cone is now making to the old specs. There were real inconsistancy especially in the early 2000 through mid 2000 with the denim that LVC was using. The last few pairs I have bought from 07 & 08 have been really nice. Much better than anything I had from those early -mid 2000 years which I've sold all of those that I had.

Grant I wish those 47s you had were one size larger. From what I've read the Japanese cut is closer to original than the US cut is.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Grant I just wanted to say we can agree to disagree but I will say that there are plenty of LVCs over the past few years I didn't like. The 20s 201s with the double needle arcuate. Not crazy about the change of the 47s to fit lower and slimmer than originals to play to the new lower and slimmer trend in jeans.

Some true highlights are the 1901s from a few years back that used Japanese denim (the ones with no line on the selvage). The 333s from last year one word OUTSTANDING. Also the 209 coveralls. The denim is AWESOME...The 20 201s (555) just killer and though not accurate the 1937 201s early LVCs kind of a made up jean but nice...

 

[Doug C]

Allen, I missed the part about cone getting old looms up and running, where was that again? So much has been written lately and it seems like it's all spread out in different forums, blogs and what not, it's kinda hard to keep track of. But that's awesome I wonder where they got the looms? The way I see it you can't go wrong either way and because I've always heard how good the japanese denim is, I'll probably have to scratch that itch now anyway. Besides if a little slub is the worst of it I would live with it on one pair for some variety in the collection. Oh, and Allen sorry buddy but I have to admit I'm not seeing what you are in those 333's, though I guess I can give 'em high marks for uniqueness. Anyway on another note - anyone know what the difference could possibly be between the 1915 and 1917 501 ? Both are featured this year..

Doug C

 

[Grant]

Speaking of Cone Mills, I stopped by Stronghold in LA today and saw some beautiful samples of a new super dark indigo selvage denim they just got in from Cone. Also saw a prototype of a pair of Strongholds that were more faithful to the original Stronghold work wear from the 30's. All in all very promising.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Speaking of Cone Mills, I stopped by Stronghold in LA today and saw some beautiful samples of a new super dark indigo selvage denim they just got in from Cone. Also saw a prototype of a pair of Strongholds that were more faithful to the original Stronghold work wear from the 30's. All in all very promising.

Yeah the more quality denim they sell, the more profitable it can become, then maybe they will keep expanding and making a real effort to get the denim right and just maybe LVC will really keep putting an effort forward to make more accurate repros. MAYBE. :?

Can't hurt to hope and from what I've read these 1915 cone collaboration jeans in F/W could be a real step in the right direction.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Without going back through the 20+ prior pages, of the 501s currently available at Cultizm, which would folks here consider the "best". I'm talking denim, construction, fit, etc.

~Swing

Paul Trynka is a real Levis/denim expert and has written a good deal on the subject posted over at sufu that the 08 and now 09 LVC line is as good as any denim especially the latest that are using cone mills denim. I guess cone has really researched their records (denim samples and written records) and is getting the right weight and weave. The 27 are suppose to be real good as are the 20 201s and the 55s are very accurate in cut and denim weight. My favorites are my 1906 209 coveralls my 1911 333s my 27 501s and of course my 1933s..I'm a sucker for buckle backs and crotch rivets.

I am probably going to pick up a pair of 1915 501s when they're available in the fall. They are suppose to have a special run denim from cone mills a collaboration between Levis and cone..

And probably a pair of 1954 501s..

Thanks for the reply Allen. Right now I'm looking at getting another pair of '44s or '55s (in a smaller size than the first pair I bought). But I emailed Dejan and he will have the Valencia Street 1947s in in my size soon. What the difference between the Valencia Street and the other 1947s on the cultizm site? Same jean made in different factories?

Thanks,

~Swing

Well some folks really like the denim and the quality of the older Valencia Street LVCs which is the original factory. Both the 44s and the 55s are very nice LVCs and if you can find RAW NWT pairs of 555 they tend to fetch big $$$$. I think some of the denim coming outta cone the past couple of years has been very good not like some of the denim that we were seeing 5 or so years back.

I didn't know that they were making LVCs again at Valencia Street. IF so thats interesting or is he trying to find you a pair of older 555s (Valencia St). Also the US 47s are very trim in all areas. The 44s and 55s are more accurate cuts for those years than the cut of the 47s.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Allen, I missed the part about cone getting old looms up and running, where was that again? So much has been written lately and it seems like it's all spread out in different forums, blogs and what not, it's kinda hard to keep track of. But that's awesome I wonder where they got the looms? The way I see it you can't go wrong either way and because I've always heard how good the japanese denim is, I'll probably have to scratch that itch now anyway. Besides if a little slub is the worst of it I would live with it on one pair for some variety in the collection. Oh, and Allen sorry buddy but I have to admit I'm not seeing what you are in those 333's, though I guess I can give 'em high marks for uniqueness. Anyway on another note - anyone know what the difference could possibly be between the 1915 and 1917 501 ? Both are featured this year..

Doug C

Doug the denim on the 333s is very different from any other LVC I've seen. Its really cool. The texture and color are very different. Also they are a dead copy of originals. REAL CLOSE....

The difference from what I've been reading, Cone really went through a real effort to recreate as close as possible the same denim that they were producing for Levis in 1915 the first year they supplied denim to Levis. Thus the name 1915 Cone Collaboration and Levis went through a real process to get the cut of the jean and the detail right. Well see...

Here read through this, it talks about the modified looms but those are still not new looms. Levis was making denim on narrow looms until 1983 so these might not be the same ones from the 30s but they are still old narrow looms.
http://www.trynka.net/Site/Cone.html


Well its kinda nice to see them (LVC and Cone) really trying to get it right lately. I mean there nothing wrong with high end Japanese denim but I think if it kinda like I think of some of the repro jacket companies making repeos. They sometimes add their interpetation which in the end winds up with great jacket but it might be heavier and maybe even better made than an original. But I would rather have a more exact copy. LVC does do some things really well and have made some good repros (the ones I listed earlier being some of the most accurate in my opinion) but not all and not every year for LVC has been a good year but it does look like they're trying lately.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Doug also the 333s as well as the 1906 209 coveralls were made in VERY small #s. The denim is also different than any denim I've seen on any other LVC.

But besides the denim the cut and the details are pretty special to. Well here..

The 333s

The 209s

 

[stanier]

Hi Airfrog, you've got some lovely denim there especially those overalls.

If you get the chance I suggest a good look at the LVC Japan denim. I don't believe it to be overly slubbly as I agree some of the more modern interpretations from other makers can be.

I know what Grant means about the wear, there's just something about it that is very nice.I don't have any originals to compare to, and the reality is I probably never will, but it is nice.

 

[Doug C]

I think it's mainly the lack of contrasting thread that's throwing me on the 333's, I do dig the coverall 209s though. I understand what you mean about the different denim on those models being unique too - It's not like LVC is just changing the details on these models but they've gone to the trouble of sourcing the proper denim. Same with my 1920 201s (from '07), that denim is wonderfull but it's much different than what's used on the 501s. Speaking of which, at some point I'm going to have to get another pair of those same 201s and this time try to get the sizeing right. There ought to be a warning that they don't shrink the same as 501s. I love 'em but they're huge, I made the mistake of buying the same size as the 501s and after a couple of hot washes the length has only shrank about an inch, maybe an inch and a half and the waste very little if any. I'm gonna make 'em into cut-offs for the summer! Down sizeing big time on the next ones.

Doug C

 

[Swing]

Well some folks really like the denim and the quality of the older Valencia Street LVCs which is the original factory. Both the 44s and the 55s are very nice LVCs and if you can find RAW NWT pairs of 555 they tend to fetch big $$$$. I think some of the denim coming outta cone the past couple of years has been very good not like some of the denim that we were seeing 5 or so years back.

I didn't know that they were making LVCs again at Valencia Street. IF so thats interesting or is he trying to find you a pair of older 555s (Valencia St). Also the US 47s are very trim in all areas. The 44s and 55s are more accurate cuts for those years than the cut of the 47s.

Well, the Valencia Street 1947s (marked 555 on the back of the button) aren't on the website anymore. I don't know if they are a no go, or if he just took the page down to avoid questions until the jeans arrive (I was told he'd ordered in 100 pair and expected to have them soon). Something must be special about them, because he had them listed at about $60 higher than the '47s currently on the website. If they don't come in, I'll get another pair of 44s or 55s. I've avoided wearing my 44's during the winter, but I've had them on the past couple days. Boy do I like 'em!

I see a contest is starting at superfuture with these jeans.

http://blueingreensoho.com/site/index.p ... &Itemid=28

I'd like to participate, but the price is a turn off, as is the idea of pretty much foresaking my other jeans to wear the hecka outta the Full Counts for a year.

~Swing

 

[airfrogusmc]

Hi Airfrog, you've got some lovely denim there especially those overalls.

If you get the chance I suggest a good look at the LVC Japan denim. I don't believe it to be overly slubbly as I agree some of the more modern interpretations from other makers can be.

I know what Grant means about the wear, there's just something about it that is very nice.I don't have any originals to compare to, and the reality is I probably never will, but it is nice.

I'm not saying its bad stuff but the what I am saying is that Levis and Cone have FINALLY gotten their act together lately and what could be MORE authentic than the factory that actually made the original denim now making denim that they know exactly how to do because they have the samples and the archives not some other company trying to guess what the cotton was or the die etc....

 

[airfrogusmc]

Well some folks really like the denim and the quality of the older Valencia Street LVCs which is the original factory. Both the 44s and the 55s are very nice LVCs and if you can find RAW NWT pairs of 555 they tend to fetch big $$$$. I think some of the denim coming outta cone the past couple of years has been very good not like some of the denim that we were seeing 5 or so years back.

I didn't know that they were making LVCs again at Valencia Street. IF so thats interesting or is he trying to find you a pair of older 555s (Valencia St). Also the US 47s are very trim in all areas. The 44s and 55s are more accurate cuts for those years than the cut of the 47s.

Well, the Valencia Street 1947s (marked 555 on the back of the button) aren't on the website anymore. I don't know if they are a no go, or if he just took the page down to avoid questions until the jeans arrive (I was told he'd ordered in 100 pair and expected to have them soon). Something must be special about them, because he had them listed at about $60 higher than the '47s currently on the website. If they don't come in, I'll get another pair of 44s or 55s. I've avoided wearing my 44's during the winter, but I've had them on the past couple days. Boy do I like 'em!

I see a contest is starting at superfuture with these jeans.

http://blueingreensoho.com/site/index.p ... &Itemid=28

I'd like to participate, but the price is a turn off, as is the idea of pretty much foresaking my other jeans to wear the hecka outta the Full Counts for a year.

~Swing

Swing if you keep your eyes open on greed bay you can sometimes find RAW 555s. I picked up a few like that including my 555 20s 201s and my 1933 501s. Maybe Dejan found a stock pile of old 555 stuff.

 

[airfrogusmc]

I think it's mainly the lack of contrasting thread that's throwing me on the 333's, I do dig the coverall 209s though. I understand what you mean about the different denim on those models being unique too - It's not like LVC is just changing the details on these models but they've gone to the trouble of sourcing the proper denim. Same with my 1920 201s (from '07), that denim is wonderfull but it's much different than what's used on the 501s. Speaking of which, at some point I'm going to have to get another pair of those same 201s and this time try to get the sizeing right. There ought to be a warning that they don't shrink the same as 501s. I love 'em but they're huge, I made the mistake of buying the same size as the 501s and after a couple of hot washes the length has only shrank about an inch, maybe an inch and a half and the waste very little if any. I'm gonna make 'em into cut-offs for the summer! Down sizeing big time on the next ones.

Doug C

Those 201s from 07 are REALLY nice not like the 201s from a few years ealier that had the wrong arcuates. I scored a pair of 555 201s a few years back. I think that Cone is really working hard with Levis NOW to get the right denim for the different years Levis is reproducing. The green line denim from 07 and the earlier 555s is just great stuff. Plus ya gotta love those blackened buttons. I just wish they would do something about those crappy pressed metal buckles...

 

[Grant]

I hope Cone and Levi's do have their act together- so far I haven't seen it. It really doesn't matter to me if the denim is made in the same factory or not. What matters is the attention to detail in how the cotton is dyed and on what looms. Most current LVC stuff I've seen is crappy denim that looks almost the same as the shrink to fit stuff. Some of the old 555 made LVC are far superior to the stuff that's currently being made.

For some reason the Japanese LVC have a much higher standard than the stuff sold to the west. Maybe it's because the Japanese are fanatics when it comes to denim and the history and know better and Levi's knows they won't settle for something less.

Just came back from Chuck's Vintage on Melrose. Holy shit do they have some kick ass original denim.