Goatskin vs horsehide

[269sqnhudson]

G'day folks,

Personal opinion only, but I haven't found a goat jacket that I've enjoyed wearing. Granted, my only A-2 goat experience is with a dodgey Cooper orange label

I like my Coopers, they're not dodgy! They appear to be becoming popular again as the mint ones are running out. Great goatskin (weird armpit fit though :? ). Curiously they are a more 'original' A2 than any Goodwear or Eastman....being that they were actually issued to flight crews in the 90s

 

[Marv]

The Cooper was my first ever A2 and I have still got it - it's named and badged up as the 332nd Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Group, 8th Air Force.

It's the Orange label version but with the same leather colour shade, hardware and knits/colour as the Saddlery issues.....good quality assembly also.

 

[herk115]

G'day folks,

Personal opinion only, but I haven't found a goat jacket that I've enjoyed wearing. Granted, my only A-2 goat experience is with a dodgey Cooper orange label

I like my Coopers, they're not dodgy! They appear to be becoming popular again as the mint ones are running out. Great goatskin (weird armpit fit though :? ). Curiously they are a more 'original' A2 than any Goodwear or Eastman....being that they were actually issued to flight crews in the 90s

On the issue of HH vs. goat, I'd say go with whatever looks right and feels right. Farther than two feet away, only the most fanatical of collectors can tell the difference anyway. Remember, the vintage jackets were made with whatever hides were available, and the crews took what they were issued.

IRT Coopers, I was issued mine by the USAF in 1989, put a thousand hours of flying on it, two or three times that wearing it driving my pickup driving to and from the base, and there's hardly a scuff on it. If it still fit me (which it hasn't for ten years) I'd still be wearing it and I'll bet it would still look as good as new.

 

[FlyingYankee]

Modern Air Force issue Flight jackets look bad when new and continue to look worse as the years go on. The Scuffs do not add character as an original. After a while the Jacket looks so bad as to be unserviceable. A new pilot would do well to buy a GW or Eastman as close as possible to the issue color and put the proper velcro for patches on it.

 

[herk115]

Modern Air Force issue Flight jackets look bad when new and continue to look worse as the years go on. The Scuffs do not add character as an original. After a while the Jacket looks so bad as to be unserviceable. A new pilot would do well to buy a GW or Eastman as close as possible to the issue color and put the proper velcro for patches on it.

Except that, at least in my day, the regulations don't allow that. You have to wear the issue leather or no leather at all. Granted, few people could tell the difference. But I did try buying a high-end repro in the 90s and putting the modern air force patch and name tag on it. Somehow it just didn't look right and detracted from the overall appearance of the jacket. Of course, that ridiculous name tag would make anything look hideous.

 

[grommet]

Having owned several Cooper A-2's and a G-1, I have noticed that goatskin has an odor which does not improve with age. On the other hand, horsehide has a manly smell (well, not too manly!). Also, although the goatskin is softer initially, the fit doesn't seem to improve with time. My GW Aero 16160 in HH, on the other hand, after several years of frequent wear, feels molded to the body, like a well fitting glove.

 

[zoomer]

My Good Wear Doniger in russet goat might be the handsomest jacket I own, and is easily one of the best in handfeel.

 

[269sqnhudson]

Modern Air Force issue Flight jackets look bad when new and continue to look worse as the years go on. The Scuffs do not add character as an original. After a while the Jacket looks so bad as to be unserviceable. A new pilot would do well to buy a GW or Eastman as close as possible to the issue color and put the proper velcro for patches on it.

You're right they don't age the same. The Coopers age like 50s-60s G1s but they were supposed to be somewhat more resilient than modern repros being more of a functional item. I see the resilience of the goat as a plus in that respect.
I personally like the way my Cooper keeps its arm shape rather than remaining rumpled up like my Eastman A2s. The rumpling and (in my opinion) premature tarnishing of some of the ELC A2 hides is not a plus. I do get why many go for that but I prefer resilience in A2 leather.

 

[herk115]

G'day folks,

Personal opinion only, but I haven't found a goat jacket that I've enjoyed wearing. Granted, my only A-2 goat experience is with a dodgey Cooper orange label

I like my Coopers, they're not dodgy! They appear to be becoming popular again as the mint ones are running out. Great goatskin (weird armpit fit though :? ). Curiously they are a more 'original' A2 than any Goodwear or Eastman....being that they were actually issued to flight crews in the 90s

As unfaithful as Coopers are to the wartime A-2s ("wartime" meaning WWII, even though I wore my Cooper during "wartime" -- the Gulf War), I really appreciate your statement. It may be "only" a Cooper, but I earned it and was issued it while serving in the USAF as combat aircrew. How many people can say they were issued an A-2 in wartime? Or "issued" one at all? It is one of my most prized possessions.

 

[kiltie]

herk -

That's a really neat post. On the one hand, it'd be easy to dismiss it with a 'thanks for your service' and leave it at that. But there's so much more in the "boy who never grew up" sentiment that lets a person know you're not just looking for an attaboy.
I definitely know there are parts of my gear* that, I'm not gonna lie, sometimes I hafta look at myself in the mirror and say, "Here I am. I made it," because I'm doing something I always wanted to do and it comes with all the pride and vestments of the office, as it were.
Well done, and well spoken for a pat on your own back. You deserve it.


*my work stuff

 

[herk115]

herk -

That's a really neat post. On the one hand, it'd be easy to dismiss it with a 'thanks for your service' and leave it at that. But there's so much more in the "boy who never grew up" sentiment that lets a person know you're not just looking for an attaboy.
I definitely know there are parts of my gear* that, I'm not gonna lie, sometimes I hafta look at myself in the mirror and say, "Here I am. I made it," because I'm doing something I always wanted to do and it comes with all the pride and vestments of the office, as it were.
Well done, and well spoken for a pat on your own back. You deserve it.


*my work stuff

Kiltie, thank you -- very much. You are correct. I'm not looking for an attaboy. I consider the AF giving me the A-2 to be the attaboy. It's just like you said: when I put on any of my A-2s, I look in the mirror sometimes and think to myself, "You made it, dude. The hard work paid off. You made the varsity squad." I guess also I was just trying to point out that a Cooper is what it is in the eye of the beholder -- on one hand, it's a pretty lame variation of the A-2, but if you earned it, it's pretty cool to have in your closet!

 

[Monsoon]

As Herk115 said, the AF issued me my A-2. It's probably the last bit of flight gear I'd get rid of. It's not a high end jacket, but it's mine.

 

[jollygreenslugg]

G'day folks,

Just to clarify, when I call my Cooper Orange Label A-2 'dodgey', I'm not referring to the jacket in itself, I'm referring to the fact that I've painted some dodgey artwork on it. I'm not much of an artist, and the additions I've made to it have made it 'dodgey', not anything about the jacket itself. Oh, except the way the soft goatskin clings in places - but that's my subjective opinion.

Cheers,
Matt

 

[herk115]

G'day folks,

Just to clarify, when I call my Cooper Orange Label A-2 'dodgey', I'm not referring to the jacket in itself, I'm referring to the fact that I've painted some dodgey artwork on it. I'm not much of an artist, and the additions I've made to it have made it 'dodgey', not anything about the jacket itself. Oh, except the way the soft goatskin clings in places - but that's my subjective opinion.

Cheers,
Matt

Matt,

That's quite all right. As I pointed out, taken in itself the Cooper *is* a dodgey, third rate repro of the original A-2. No offense was taken.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

G'day folks,

Just to clarify, when I call my Cooper Orange Label A-2 'dodgey', I'm not referring to the jacket in itself, I'm referring to the fact that I've painted some dodgey artwork on it. I'm not much of an artist, and the additions I've made to it have made it 'dodgey', not anything about the jacket itself. Oh, except the way the soft goatskin clings in places - but that's my subjective opinion.

Cheers,
Matt

I like the Flak Bait paint job, it's as good as most out there, nice and sharp. Rub a little Tandy Leather Ecoflow antique gel on it to knock the colors down a bit.

BTW, I was buying orange label Coopers for 148.00 when I first started painting and patching jackets, it is what it is, nice cheap canvas and authentic military issue to the general public market. That market is much bigger than our little group here and has a place in the world. I remember when the A2 was brought back in the 80's. I was walking the Buff's / Big Ugly Fat F******s / B-52's freezing my azz of all night at Loring in an N3 Parka. The pilots looked pretty cool wearing their A-2's as they hopped out of the truck to board the plane.

 

[Skip]

Can't see anything dodgy about the artwork Matt !!

 

[269sqnhudson]

I agree, having seen that artwork a while ago on another post (another forum?) I decided I'd like the Flak Bait artwork on one of mine.
Interestingly I work with a German girl so always want to avoid any bomb symbols!