G-1 Waistband/Cuffs Question

[tda003]

When did the waistband design on G-1 flight jackets change from its bi-directional design to its current homogenous design? Same question about the cuffs. I have examples of both on jackets. Did that happen at once or over time at a specific contract number/date?

 

[MaydayWei]

Pretty sure it switched from the rib-knit single ply to the double ply ordinary knit during the change in spec from 7823C to the 7823D [1966 - 1967].

 

[tda003]

Thanks. There seem to be a good many changes. I have a 7823E which is cowhide and dynel with plain cuffs and waistband, a7823D with goatskin, plain cuffs and waistband and dynel and another goatskin, plain cuffs and waistband with mouton collar and a 3rd with bidirectional waistband and mouton collar. I don't have a 7823a,B or C. My M-422A and 55J14 have goatskin, mouton and bi-directional waistband. It's looking like the bi-directional waistband was present in at least some of the "D"s as was mouton. I don't know the actual specs and it could be that all variations of cuffs, waistband and collars exist in the 7823D, possibly until existing stocks were used up or dependent upon what each manufacturer used.

 

[MaydayWei]

If I may clarify, you are only partially correct. 7823Ds only originally ever came with double ply plain knits.

In mid-1969, the 7823D specification was updated. This meant that Goatskin was to be replaced with Cowhide; and Mouton to be replaced with Dynel.
However, due to leftover stock of goatskin, some D models post this mid-1969 change were made with goat with a dynel collar; there was never a cowhide jacket with a genuine mouton collar.

The rib rack to plain knit change came with the change from 7823C to 7823D. It did not come with the later 7823D update (explained above).
As such, D models only ever came originally with double ply plain knits. Therefore, any D model with a single ply rib rack bottom knit has been incorrectly replaced. The single ply rib rack knits spanned only from the M422 - 7823C [1940 - 1966]. The D specification (original) coming into force in 1967 and the D specification (updated) coming into force mid-1969.

 

[tda003]

Sorry if I misstated what I meant to say. When I said "plain cuffs", I merely meant that they were not bi-directional, but had the same weave for the entire cuff and not whether they were double ply. Also, I am referring only to those 7823D G-1 jackets that I own. Where I omit a cuff reference, it means that the jacket either does not have cuffs or they have been replaced at some point. The 7823D that has goatskin, mouton and bi-directional waistband is mine as issued new. It has plain cuffs, meaning homogenous weave. The others are yard sale/thrift shop purchases (sentimental rescues if you will) and I do not know their prior history. They are, however, a mixture of goatskin and cowhide with one having a mouton collar (goatskin) and the others with dynel.

For my own curiosity, where can I find the contract specs for the range of G-1 types from M-422 to present?

 

[Nickb123]

G-1 Contracts ?

Wiki said Ferguson of Oklahoma was a military contractor, it also says that Schott was a contractor. Previous discussions on the forum said that neither of these manufacturers had military contracts. Is there a website that has an accurate list of contractors for navy G1 type jackets ? ps -...

www.vintageleatherjackets.org

 

[Spitfireace]

Thanks. There seem to be a good many changes. I have a 7823E which is cowhide and dynel with plain cuffs and waistband, a7823D with goatskin, plain cuffs and waistband and dynel and another goatskin, plain cuffs and waistband with mouton collar and a 3rd with bidirectional waistband and mouton collar. I don't have a 7823a,B or C. My M-422A and 55J14 have goatskin, mouton and bi-directional waistband. It's looking like the bi-directional waistband was present in at least some of the "D"s as was mouton. I don't know the actual specs and it could be that all variations of cuffs, waistband and collars exist in the 7823D, possibly until existing stocks were used up or dependent upon what each manufacturer used.

1966 generally speaking when the knits were changed.

 

[nickgp]

Sorry if I misstated what I meant to say. When I said "plain cuffs", I merely meant that they were not bi-directional, but had the same weave for the entire cuff and not whether they were double ply. Also, I am referring only to those 7823D G-1 jackets that I own. Where I omit a cuff reference, it means that the jacket either does not have cuffs or they have been replaced at some point. The 7823D that has goatskin, mouton and bi-directional waistband is mine as issued new. It has plain cuffs, meaning homogenous weave. The others are yard sale/thrift shop purchases (sentimental rescues if you will) and I do not know their prior history. They are, however, a mixture of goatskin and cowhide with one having a mouton collar (goatskin) and the others with dynel.

For my own curiosity, where can I find the contract specs for the range of G-1 types from M-422 to present?

Were there ever rib rack cuffs-single or double ply?

 

[nickgp]

If I may clarify, you are only partially correct. 7823Ds only originally ever came with double ply plain knits.

In mid-1969, the 7823D specification was updated. This meant that Goatskin was to be replaced with Cowhide; and Mouton to be replaced with Dynel.
However, due to leftover stock of goatskin, some D models post this mid-1969 change were made with goat with a dynel collar; there was never a cowhide jacket with a genuine mouton collar.

The rib rack to plain knit change came with the change from 7823C to 7823D. It did not come with the later 7823D update (explained above).
As such, D models only ever came originally with double ply plain knits. Therefore, any D model with a single ply rib rack bottom knit has been incorrectly replaced. The single ply rib rack knits spanned only from the M422 - 7823C [1940 - 1966]. The D specification (original) coming into force in 1967 and the D specification (updated) coming into force mid-1969.

If I may clarify, you are only partially correct. 7823Ds only originally ever came with double ply plain knits.

In mid-1969, the 7823D specification was updated. This meant that Goatskin was to be replaced with Cowhide; and Mouton to be replaced with Dynel.
However, due to leftover stock of goatskin, some D models post this mid-1969 change were made with goat with a dynel collar; there was never a cowhide jacket with a genuine mouton collar.

The rib rack to plain knit change came with the change from 7823C to 7823D. It did not come with the later 7823D update (explained above).
As such, D models only ever came originally with double ply plain knits. Therefore, any D model with a single ply rib rack bottom knit has been incorrectly replaced. The single ply rib rack knits spanned only from the M422 - 7823C [1940 - 1966]. The D specification (original) coming into force in 1967 and the D specification (updated) coming into force mid-1969.

If I may clarify, you are only partially correct. 7823Ds only originally ever came with double ply plain knits.

In mid-1969, the 7823D specification was updated. This meant that Goatskin was to be replaced with Cowhide; and Mouton to be replaced with Dynel.
However, due to leftover stock of goatskin, some D models post this mid-1969 change were made with goat with a dynel collar; there was never a cowhide jacket with a genuine mouton collar.

The rib rack to plain knit change came with the change from 7823C to 7823D. It did not come with the later 7823D update (explained above).
As such, D models only ever came originally with double ply plain knits. Therefore, any D model with a single ply rib rack bottom knit has been incorrectly replaced. The single ply rib rack knits spanned only from the M422 - 7823C [1940 - 1966]. The D specification (original) coming into force in 1967 and the D specification (updated) coming into force mid-1969.

Were there ever rib rack cuffs-single or double ply? Could you also tell me what the difference is in the cuffs in the 2 attachments please-thank you-I am a bit confused

 

[33-1729]

The supporting specs for the knits and waistband changed from 7823C to 7823D, but you'll need to read them to understand the difference (I'm not that familiar with knits).

MIL-J-7823C

MIL-J-7823D

 

[B-Man2]

The supporting specs for the knits and waistband changed from 7823C to 7823D, but you'll need to read them to understand the difference (I'm not that familiar with knits).

MIL-J-7823C
View attachment 177885

MIL-J-7823D
View attachment 177887

Dude… you are a VLJ Treasure when it comes to finding new and previously unknown technical info … thank you !

 

[Abyss]

Agree with B-Man2. Thank you for the information 33-1729! Fantastic to have the source document information.