For HLB Corp. A-2 owners or ...what's so special about the sleeve construction of the 37 contract?

[ties70]

Gents,

I am trying to find out, what might be so special about the construction of HLB's 37-3891P contract that History Preservation mentions "but most markedly a completely unique cut to the sleeve underarm, which is like no other - giving this A-2 a noticeable amount of extra lateral arm movement when raising one’s arms to the side.", while JC doesn't mention anything about the sleeves on his website....

From the pictures available I can't find anything, too. Or maybe I can't see the obvious....?

Any ideas? And why did ELC stop to make the jacket?

Best regards,

Ties

 

[mulceber]

I don’t know the answer to this, but I gather the HLB contract is one of the most elusive A-2s, maybe more so even than SAT or Werber 1729. JC has told me that he had to take his HLB pattern from one of their private purchase A-2s that they made after receiving the government contract, rather than a jacket actually from that contract. This is from the guy who’s handled B-1 jackets, a Switlik M-422, SAT A-2s and AN-J-3s.

 

[Brettafett]

Very good question. Interested in hearing more.

 

[ties70]

I don’t know the answer to this, but I gather the HLB contract is one of the most elusive A-2s, maybe more so even than SAT or Werber 1729. JC has told me that he had to take his HLB pattern from one of their private purchase A-2s that they made after receiving the government contract, rather than a jacket actually from that contract. This is from the guy who’s handled B-1 jackets, a Switlik M-422, SAT A-2s and AN-J-3s.

Jan,

yes, I have read so in an older thread from 2014 ;-).

But neither there nor on his website does JC mention a "special lower sleeve contruction" like HPA does. HPA themselves do have the photo reference of their original and the ELC version here:

History Preservation USAC A-2 Flying Jacket, HLB Corp. Contract 37-3891P | History Preservation

Eastman's HLB Corp. A-2 Jacket copies smallest A-2 contract the U. S. Air Corps ever awarded to a manufacturer, which numbered only 375 units.

www.historypreservation.com

Again, their side-by-side photos do not include the sleeves....why wouldn't they if that's such an important detail?

Hmmmm....

Ties

 

[Brettafett]

Ties, you may want to email Rob/ Gary. They may be able to provide some more detail....

 

[mulceber]

I really doubt Eastman will want to divulge details of their patterns, even for a jacket they no longer offer.

 

[Brettafett]

What I can add, as unhelpful as it is... is that the HLB is one of the most comfortable ELC A-2s for a given size, that Ive even tried on.
I found it be slightly longer for a given size and it was noticeably comfy, moving around in and lifting arms. No 'pull' like most other contracts.
Not a fan of the zipper, however... fragile...
I was keen, but they stopped making it. Hence the Monarch.

 

[ties70]

I really doubt Eastman will want to divulge details of their patterns, even for a jacket they no longer offer.

Nevertheless, I have written an email to ELC. Don't expect an answer (at least not a specific one), but you never know...

 

[YoungMedic]

His A2 book only mentions that the sleeves are flat sewn vs set in

 

[ties70]

And that means what exactly?

For set-in construction the torso (front and back) of the A-2 are sewn together, so are the sleeves....both are then joined together....?

For flat-sewn front and back of the A-2 are still unsewn, so is the sleeve...all parts get pinned at the top of the shoulder and then sewn together with basically one long seam...?

Why is one better than the other?

 

[mulceber]

And that means what exactly?

See this thread (post #2, Nnatalie's section) for a discussion of the difference between flat-sewn and inset sleeves: https://www.vintageleatherjackets.o...te-and-show-us-your-jackets.24867/post-280218

 

[ties70]

Thanks Jan, so I got that right....

But if flat-sewn was standard, it doesn't explain why HPA announces the jacket to have "a completely unique cut to the sleeve underarm"...

So it must have something to do with the pattern of the sleeves....especially, as Brett mentions that the HLB he had the chance to try on wasn't "riding up" when lifting the arm....something Natalie describes to be a common flaw for flat-sewn jackets.

HLB (and ELC) must have found a way to keep the sewing process fast, but eliminated the flaws of flat-sewing...

Ties

 

[mulceber]

That sounds about right to me. If I had to guess, they cut it so that the under side of the sleeve is longer than it usually is, thus causing the sleeves not to ride up so much when you lift your arms laterally.

 

[Brettafett]

There may also be something to be said for the pattern itself, the slightly wider, squarer shoulders perhaps, slightly larger armholes, slightly wider back panel..?
It may be subjective, but at that pop-up, I was able to try on multiple ELC A-2s (and other types), and compare 'perceived' fit, at the same size.
HLB won hands down, but it did also feel a touch roomier than the other jackets, especially in the waist area.

 

[mulceber]

I kinda wonder why ELC discontinued it. I'm sure it's not a big seller like the Rough Wears are, but it's a neat little contract, and I'm surprised they couldn't make it "by special order only," or something like that.

 

[Brettafett]

Isn't it something to do with zippers, or the person who was specialising in sewing them up?
I seem to recall having this convo... That they are training someone up to work on these specifically.

?

 

[mulceber]

So they might be re-introducing it in the next few years then? Always good to have more options, even from some of the most expensive makers.

 

[Brettafett]

Heres the jacket in question, 42

 

[mulceber]

Looks like they were re-creating the original from Gary's collection - seal color (re-dye?) and the same patch.

 

[Grant]

I'll check the sleeves of my ELC HLB later and see if I notice anything special about the construction. FWIW, the ELC HLB sleeves are cut slightly fuller than any other repro contract I've handled.