B-Man2
Well-Known Member
My personal choice would be to have it just the way yours is . It’s much more authentic and looks the way the originals did when they were issued , complete with natural scars . Yours looks great by the way .
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Fivestar Monarch 23378
- Thread starter Jaws623
- Start date
Camel24hrs
Active Member
As you can see when comparing jacket sizing from same contract same size there is naturally variation in measurements. These are RW 23380s. So slightly changing up the measurements to fit one doesn’t make it less of a repo. Ever look at the pics of Keslo or Goodwear jackets? They use the same color cognac threads on their Repos as well. No one is going to say theirs are not repos.
It looks good.
Comment/question though: What makes it a "Monarch" after the extensive pattern modifications to fit you?
I like Five Star, and Shawn. I have two Five Stars myself (an A-2 and a "Crusader"). I'm not casting shade on them or your jacket...it does look nice. But for the most part there's not a lot to differentiate one Five Star model from another. Some have a collar stand and some don't...his Werber has the line of stitching over the waist knits and the double row at the pocket...and a couple of his models were patterned off an original that he got his hands on. Most were not, so I don't know where the pattern/measurements were derived from. But there honestly aren't a lot of differentiators. Same leathers, pockets, epaulets, and in examples where he hasn't examined and copied an original, same size chart.
However, once the pattern has been altered to that extent to fit, and specified down to thread color, at that point it's "just" a Five Star custom, and doesn't matter what "original maker" label is sewn in. I'd honestly be happy at that custom level to have a WW2-style label that says "Five Star" rather than "Monarch" or "Rough Wear" or whatever else.
I want to point out one last time that I'm not knocking it. It's a great fit and a great product, and Five Star customer service is stunning. This is just an academic question regarding their product.
I guess Good Wear also completely customizes the jacket to the wearer, so maybe I'm just missing something.
Not that a WW2 flyer got to choose a pattern ("excuse me sir, I'd prefer a Rough Wear over a Perry, thank you!"), but back then the pattern probably mattered more than anything on the fit. You just walked in and got a size 40, or whatever, and the fit of that 40 depended on the manufacturer. There was no customization. You can get closer to customization in today's military because you can get a 40R, 40L, or 40S, and even then, you're probably not getting a "perfect" fit. Just close enough, so pattern still kind of matters, even though the pattern now is purely baggy Avirex/Cockpit.
As far as jackets Shawn has looked at I enclosed a pic of the list. However since this list I know he has a Weber first contract in his hands. Which is impressive in that there were only 350 made according to Eastman. And I know he examined a Monarch as well. Now he does take liberty to for example use RW 27752 and produce a RW 28830 without having a 23380. However those contracts were practically identical except for the tags.
Camel24hrs
Active Member
I do know his RW jackets generally run an inch shorter than Keslo RW jackets run. But he only had 1 RW jacket to inspect. My RWs I get from 5 star I add an inch or more to the length. Had a RW 23380 size 48 I sold as I lost 32 lbs. bought a RW 27752 size 46 in mid brown. Recently I bought that Monarch in reddish brown and it surprisingly was full grain. So I have ordered a RW 23380 in size 46 reddish brown to replace the size 48 I sold. I requested the same full grain I got in the Monarch.
One thing I will say about 5 star jackets. The leather will shrink in length. About an inch or so. I think they take their leather and use it immediately without giving it time to shrink from being dried tautly. It doesn’t shrink in the width dementions. I think because of wearing it zipped keeps it stretched out that way. But sleeves and back will. I order my jackets at 26” so when they shrink down to 25” I am okay. You can physically grab the leather and stretch on it I suppose to get most of that back.
May explain the discrepancy of the original jackets. They get a load of leather delivered, the first jackets made out of that lot will end up shrinking more than the later jackets out of that lot because by the time they get to the last hides of that batch they have done shrunk down by the time they are cut. Just a thought.
Camel24hrs
Active Member
This is a good wear size 46 RW. Not that much difference in a five star 46 RW measurements.
Smithy
Well-Known Member
Will all due respect I'd rather have the Good Wear.
Camel24hrs
Active Member
Who wouldn’t? Good wear, Eastman and Keslo are beautiful jackets. Real works of art. Their attention to detail is unmatched by anyone else. There’s just one thing that strikes me odd about them. Why don’t they use the same leather in their jackets that the original A2s used? They use high end Italian and Japanese fully vegetable tanned leather in their jackets. Well we were at war with Italy and Japan, no A2s used this leather. Plus in Eastmans own book he provides the documentation that shows the military specification were for full grain, fully chrome tanned leather and the inspector report on a batch that confirms fully chrome tanned leather was used. Same on cowhide and goatskin.
There is a huge difference in the appearance and qualities of chrome and vegetable tanned leather. At least Good Wear does offer an option for chrome tanned leather, just one color, and again high end Italian leather.
It’s the lower end repo makers that are producing chrome tanned leather right now. If five star continues to produce that in full grain then as far as the leather goes they are closer to the original A2s than anyone else is in regards to the leather. My big knock on five star had been them using top grain as opposed to full grain which original A2s were.
Now please don’t take me wrong here, I love the looks of the high end jackets. They are just beautiful. Just if you are making a repo then go all the way and use the same leather that was in the originals.
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I started a thread asking about this sort of thing: the differences and the “why” of maker choices/selection. I’m very interested.
