ELC Star Sportswear fit poll

[B-Man2]

I think once you make your final decision, you should wear the jacket of your choice for about a year and then re-do the poll, and let us take the same vote again with comparable photos 1 year later. Then you and all of us will know if you made the right choice...soooo how about it

 

[Greg Gale]

Here's a guy wearing a size 40 ELC Star in a movie. This is IMO a perfect fit (He's shorter than me by an inch or so, but the same build)

 

[Greg Gale]

"La nuit donne conseil" - says the French, so I slept on it, and just to be safe, tried them both in the morning. Now I can say without a doubt that the 42 is out of the game without question. What you guys don't really see on the photos is the way too much extra room in the 42, and how much more natural the sleeves of the 40 become once I don't stand in attention and bend my elbow. Actually, I can gain 6-7 kilos before I'd run out of room in the 40. I can wear my Ma-1 under the 42.

Here are my reasons:

1) First gut feeling: I really expected my first thought to be "ahh, finally, extra length" ,but the first thought that came in my mind was "Eww..., this is too big and even too long"

2) Girlfriend: When she came home, I showed her 20+ fit pics, then tried both jackets. The first thing she said when she saw the 42 was "Ohh, this one looks weird on you".

3) The 40 got 68% of the votes.

All this being said, this thread didn't help easing my mind much, because both jackets have been deemed "ridicuous" by one man or the other, but I guess that's how it is, we have different tastes I started thinking about asking Gary to make a 40 Long with an extra half an inch or one inch to the sleeves and body, BUT:

1) An extra inch may make the sleeves and body too long actually. Surely, it wouldn't ride up as much, but I'm not so sure it would be better. The waist would reach down to my pockets, and the sleeves would fully tunnel if I bent my elbows. I prefer my knits stretched flat out rather than having a tunneling effect.

2) An extra half an inch may not make any difference at all.

3) Even if an extra half an inch would make it better, would all this be worth losing 3-400 quids?

4) I don't see the "Long" option anywhere on the Eastman website.

5) After all this is an original contract repro, and what's the point of having a historical jacket in an unhistorical size, possibly with messed up proportions?

I'll sleep on this dilemma some more, but all in all, I'm happier with the 40 now than I was before I got the 42. Anyhow, I really appreciate all your contributions and opinions!

 

[Smithy]

i just cant get me head around sleeves riding mid way up my fore arms while driving, picking my nose, reading the paper, wrastling with the mutt, etc.....it just drives me nutz. btw

Although mine are pretty much the length of those in post #31 they don't actually shoot half way up my arms when I stretch rather they just fully expose my watch or a touch more which doesn't worry be a jot.

The sleeve riding up thing is also to do with the inherent design of the A-2, if you reach, stretch the jacket pulls across the back and shoulders which results in the back pulling the sleeve up - this is obviously one of the major reasons why the navy and ANJ-3 jackets brought in gusseting. You can mitigate this by having longer sleeves but it throws the look out IMO when the arms are at rest. I also wonder how many spend all their time going around doing the walking dead impression all day or with their arms up in the air. Too long sleeves on an A-2 look wrong to me as it goes against how the jacket was originally designed to look.

Of course you could get a bigger sized jacket with nice long sleeves and it'll probably be super comfortable and really easy to move in, but then so would be a potato sack, and you run the risk of ending up with this look

 

[Smithy]

Greg, with ELC a long sizing adds an extra inch to the sleeve and body, an extra long sizing adds an inch and a half to the body and sleeves. They'll do this with any jacket, or at least they used to when I bought my Irvin from them.

 

[2BM2K]

This is going to mess with your head.

Two waist-gunners pose for the camera sfter completing their tour (95th BG).

Compare the jacket lengths with the sleeve lengths.

 

[Greg Gale]

Holy Molly! One looks like my 42, the other like my 40

Rob got back to me and said they can make me a size 40 long with an extra inch. Big question: Would it really be 300 quids better (if at all), and wouldn't it throw off the historical proportions of the jacket. I made a super professional preview sketchin Paint

 

[Smithy]

Only you can answer than Greg. Do you want or feel like you need an extra inch? If so, do it. If not, save yourself 300 quid and put it toward taking the girlfriend away for a weekend abroad

 

[Lebowski]

"La nuit donne conseil" - says the French, so I slept on it, and just to be safe, tried them both in the morning. Now I can say without a doubt that the 42 is out of the game without question. What you guys don't really see on the photos is the way too much extra room in the 42, and how much more natural the sleeves of the 40 become once I don't stand in attention and bend my elbow. Actually, I can gain 6-7 kilos before I'd run out of room in the 40. I can wear my Ma-1 under the 42.

Here are my reasons:

1) First gut feeling: I really expected my first thought to be "ahh, finally, extra length" ,but the first thought that came in my mind was "Eww..., this is too big and even too long"

2) Girlfriend: When she came home, I showed her 20+ fit pics, then tried both jackets. The first thing she said when she saw the 42 was "Ohh, this one looks weird on you".

3) The 40 got 68% of the votes.

All this being said, this thread didn't help easing my mind much, because both jackets have been deemed "ridicuous" by one man or the other, but I guess that's how it is, we have different tastes I started thinking about asking Gary to make a 40 Long with an extra half an inch or one inch to the sleeves and body, BUT:

1) An extra inch may make the sleeves and body too long actually. Surely, it wouldn't ride up as much, but I'm not so sure it would be better. The waist would reach down to my pockets, and the sleeves would fully tunnel if I bent my elbows. I prefer my knits stretched flat out rather than having a tunneling effect.

2) An extra half an inch may not make any difference at all.

3) Even if an extra half an inch would make it better, would all this be worth losing 3-400 quids?

4) I don't see the "Long" option anywhere on the Eastman website.

5) After all this is an original contract repro, and what's the point of having a historical jacket in an unhistorical size, possibly with messed up proportions?

I'll sleep on this dilemma some more, but all in all, I'm happier with the 40 now than I was before I got the 42. Anyhow, I really appreciate all your contributions and opinions!

Greg, I've just read attentively all your pros and cons about Star's sizes above, and I should admit Sir - it's hard to explain this idea even more precisely then you did: why the fit of its size 40 on you is spot-on. I passionately encourage every your reason above, and I'd say even more - that's the exact way I was thinking looking at your photos at the beginning of the thread. Perfect!

 

[Greg Gale]

Or...I'll just keep wearing the 40 until it fully breaks in, THEN I decide if the extra inch is needed. (The weekends away with the GF have already been booked and paid fortunately )

Until then, here are some pro-40R pictures (I realize I'm posting these mainly for myself )

 

[Lebowski]

ps Sizing a jacket by old photos... Those WW2 pics show jacket fits all over the spectrum! For every jacket with short sleeves or slim-trim fit, I can find you another with overly long sleeves or a baggy fit, etc.

Brettafett, you're absolutely right Sir. But Star Sportswear is one of the slimmest contracts of A-2's, and may be that's why it looks so nice in size 40 on Greg. My humble opinion still is that size 40 is spot-on for Greg, esp. according to all historical features of this Star Sprortswear A-2 contract, which Gary Eastman replicated very very carefully. Anyway, that's just my humble opinion.

 

[Lebowski]

Big question: Would it really be 300 quids better (if at all)

Not exactly.

wouldn't it throw off the historical proportions of the jacket

Definitely.

Greg, to be honest - I'd keep Star size 40 and will possibly buy later (instead of Star size 42 and esp. instead of ordering a long version of size 40 of Star A-2) any other appropriate A-2 contract which was historically being made with a bit different proportions. If you'd like to have a nice slim-fitted (trim-fitted) contract with a little bit longer sleeves and body (just a little bit, not very!) - it could be Monarch A-2 contract for instance.
Cheers!)

 

[Technonut2112]

Do you have an A-4 flight suit? If so, will your jacket fit comfortably over it allowing for movement? Can you fit a C-2 sweater comfortably under it to beat a chilly fall day, and still move well? Can you actually sit down, and lean forward without your jacket riding-up over your belt-line?

IMO, the size 40 jacket looks a size too small, and only practical to wear as a fashion-statement.. Not the 'working' garment intended. Blousing should very well be the norm in wartime pics, considering the A-2 is designed, and known as a 'Blouson'...

A blouson or blouse jacket is a coat that is drawn tight at the waist, causing it to blouse out and hang over the waistband. Some of them have a hood. It takes most of its modern traits from the American flight jacket and police blouson. It is related to the Eisenhower jacket. It is considered to be both sportswear and casual civilian clothing.

 

[Smithy]

Can you actually sit down, and lean forward without your jacket riding-up over your belt-line?

I personally don't think that's a particularly good nor historically correct feature. To be able to do this the jacket would have to be overly long. Here's a fellow at a 4th FG briefing doing exactly the same pose and he's wearing higher rise trousers (either pinks or mustards):

If we're honest the A-2 isn't the most comfortable flight jacket ever made nor the one which allows the most freedom of movement. I personally think if you're after a very comfortable leather flying jacket with a good range of movement than an ANJ-3, a G-1, etc is a better bet. Trying to get an A-2 to behave like one of these jackets by having longer length or bigger sizing doesn't work and makes the jacket look odd. Just my 2 rupees.

 

[Greg Gale]

Do you have an A-4 flight suit? If so, will your jacket fit comfortably over it allowing for movement?

No, but I have a modern flight suit. It fits more than comfortably over it, and allows for all kinds of movement.

Can you fit a C-2 sweater comfortably under it to beat a chilly fall day, and still move well?

I don't have a C-2, but now I want one, than you very much I can wear a thin sweater under it - if the weather calls for more, I'll just wear my Ma-1. I usually wear my A-2 with a T-shirt.

Can you actually sit down, and lean forward without your jacket riding-up over your belt-line?

Yes. Well, I never checked how far rides up, but I never noticed it either. It's not a problem. Probably because of the extra room in the torso and back.

IMO, the size 40 jacket looks a size too small, and only practical to wear as a fashion-statement.. Not the 'working' garment intended. Blousing should very well be the norm in wartime pics, considering the A-2 is designed, and known as a 'Blouson'...

I put some flying time into it in a cramped cockpit (over a flight suit) and had no issues other than the sleeves riding up an inch or two. The back of the size 40 actually blouses even with jeans, check my first post.

 

[johnwayne]

I think you really need a 41" Greg! In all seriousness the 40" I think looks better, the collar on the 42" looking somewhat too big IMO - that's the frustrating thing about sizing as in any manufacturing process be it now or in the 40's, there is a tolerance factor so even two jackets theoretically the same size straight out of the box can vary! That's why I hate online buying anything where size is question, my old house ELC 42" droops over my shoulders yet my GW 44" sits exactly I they should!! Even my original 44" Dubow fits perfect everywhere but the sleeves feel a tad short and ride up like your 40" - there's really nowt you can do unless you can try before you buy, easier said than done sometimes!!!

 

[Smithy]

Blousing/blousoning or whatever you want to call it is always going to be slightly different with these high end veg tanned repros because they don't drape the same (at least initially) as those wartime chrome tanned jackets which have a softer drape. The veg tanned stuff is stiffer and will need a lot of wear to achieve that very soft drape.

 

[Persimmon]

Do you have an A-4 flight suit? If so, will your jacket fit comfortably over it allowing for movement? Can you fit a C-2 sweater comfortably under it to beat a chilly fall day, and still move well? Can you actually sit down, and lean forward without your jacket riding-up over your belt-line?

IMO, the size 40 jacket looks a size too small, and only practical to wear as a fashion-statement.. Not the 'working' garment intended. Blousing should very well be the norm in wartime pics, considering the A-2 is designed, and known as a 'Blouson'...

Thankfully we are not at war. We do wear clothes - to keep us warm and protect us and for fashion. That’s why we choose the shapes designs, colours etc.

Will you wear your A-4 flying suit and your leather jacket when you go to the supermarket.
Oh I forgot and the Mae West as well !!!

This is normal life. We are not “working” flying B17’s.

The size 40 is the better fit of the two. No question. Is it perfection. No. We can buy and trade jackets all day long - all years long !! - and never get there.

The 42 is far too big.
Mind you it might get close if you put your uniform on and your flying suit and the scarf and the hat and the gloves and the Mae West and the oxygen mask and the ..................................................

 

[Greg Gale]

I think you really need a 41" Greg!

I really do, you're right, too bad it doesn't exist! I bought it in person at the popup store, the sleeves were half an inch longer before creasing, but oh well.

 

[Technonut2112]

I personally don't think that's a particularly good nor historically correct feature. To be able to do this the jacket would have to be overly long. Here's a fellow at a 4th FG briefing doing exactly the same pose and he's wearing higher rise trousers (either pinks or mustards):


If we're honest the A-2 isn't the most comfortable flight jacket ever made nor the one which allows the most freedom of movement. I personally think if you're after a very comfortable leather flying jacket with a good range of movement than an ANJ-3, a G-1, etc is a better bet. Trying to get an A-2 to behave like one of these jackets by having longer length or bigger sizing doesn't work and makes the jacket look odd. Just my 2 rupees.

I agree regarding the 'riding up the back'... Not a historical feature, but very handy, and less embarrassing in these days of lower-cut waistlines, and chilly drafts 'down the crack'.. Sorry folks, an opinion was asked for, and I have stated mine....(among the so far 35% ) the 40 looks one size too small.