Educate me on A-2 leather finishes

[Smithy]

Of course it begs the question of what kind of accurate repro the makers are trying to reproduce? Is it a new in the box wartime jacket which looks the same as an issued one in 1942 or a well used many decades old one which might pass as an original to someone who was not an expert? I'm in the original in a box camp - and as I posted in another similar thread a few days ago an early chrome tanned pigmented hide GoodWear I had was the closest I've seen to that.

Using veg tanned aniline hide can make a jacket look like a well used original once it's well broken in if that is what the maker is aiming for, and for film use or something like that it might make sense. But remember the jackets were new once and most in use did not have time to get very old and well worn.

View attachment 161213

I could be dead wrong, but I recall this photo as a reenacter wearing a U.S. Authentic repro?

That is a reenactor. The guy was a member over at Le Salon du Chapeau. This photo was in the member reenactors gallery thread that Paddy collated. And yes it is a US Authentic, I know that for a fact as I messaged him about the jacket after seeing this photo back in 2007/2008.

 

[Southoftheborder]

I can't remember where I saw that photo first but it was back in the noughties I think, and it was just to illustrate my point as to how an A-2 looked like new close up as opposed to the very well worn ones you usually see. But you can't trust anything these days.

 

[flyincowboy]

Of course it begs the question of what kind of accurate repro the makers are trying to reproduce? Is it a new in the box wartime jacket which looks the same as an issued one in 1942 or a well used many decades old one which might pass as an original to someone who was not an expert? I'm in the original in a box camp - and as I posted in another similar thread a few days ago an early chrome tanned pigmented hide GoodWear I had was the closest I've seen to that.

Using veg tanned aniline hide can make a jacket look like a well used original once it's well broken in if that is what the maker is aiming for, and for film use or something like that it might make sense. But remember the jackets were new once and most in use did not have time to get very old and well worn.

View attachment 161213

look like nearly the same guy

 

[Camel24hrs]

I can't remember where I saw that photo first but it was back in the noughties I think, and it was just to illustrate my point as to how an A-2 looked like new close up as opposed to the very well worn ones you usually see. But you can't trust anything these days.

Watch the cold blue on max. Lots of A2s in the show. All kinds of shades too. Most look like they are right out of the box. There are a few that are beginning to get that slightly worn look to them. And these jackets were usually issued during training back in the states. These guys wore them a lot. Probably wore them 7-10 months before they ever got overseas. So it took a good while to get that worn look to them.
What we see years later took years to get in that condition. Of course this is just my opinion based on observations from watching old color film.

 

[Smithy]

I can't remember where I saw that photo first but it was back in the noughties I think, and it was just to illustrate my point as to how an A-2 looked like new close up as opposed to the very well worn ones you usually see. But you can't trust anything these days.

Easy to mistake. He'd "aged" the photo with Photoshop. Member's name over at the Lid Lounge was "The Wingnut". Really lovely fella.

 

[Dany McDonald]

Actually, if you (or me) are looking for a leather that ''looks'' or ''feel'' close to an original (not necessarily new, but ''mission' used) in its tanning and finish process, it's quite possible.
Almost every high-end tanneries, and I am going to say specifically Shinki still produces horsehide, tri-chromium tanned, pigment finish (pigment (lacquer) sprayed on) for top tier leather goods makers, like Real Mccoy, Buzz, Jelados, Rainbow Country etc.

One of the main reasons it's not that popular with consumers of A-2's and other vintage oriented jackets enthusiasts is the appearance when new. It looks less appealing (compared to a vintage patinaed jacket) and too newish. This is due to the inherent characteristics of chrome-pigment finish ( less prone to scratches and has vivid colors, etc...).

If like me you are attracted like a moth to a flame to skins (leather) with character, salty, patinead and shiny, pure chrome and pigment finish, off the machinist table may not get my attention.

That being said, a combination of both tanning and dye/color finishes, plus the recoat/redye done by masters like JC will result or reproduced very nice skins.

I am saying yes a very close to an original overall finish and feel is out there and available. But I have a question, would you really like it?

We should also address the drape thing in another thread... Personally I dont give a rats ass to how my jackets drape me... I wear them how I want to.

D

 

[Smithy]

Probably wore them 7-10 months before they ever got overseas.

No, that's not entirely correct.

It depended on whether they were on fighters or bombers but also especially where they were assigned for training in the US. If you were training in the southwest primarily over the warmer months, you'd never wear even an A-2, it would pretty much live in your locker box until transfer to the ETO.

The A-2s with most wear from training you'll see before transfer to Europe are those used by the Norwegian forces in exile at Little Norway in Canada. Those showed huge amounts of wear as they were worn very much non-stop for training and on the ground.

 

[Dany McDonald]

Chrome tanned…

Brice, very nice skin there, what would you say is the finish on that one?

D

 

[Banzai]

Actually, if you (or me) are looking for a leather that ''looks'' or ''feel'' close to an original (not necessarily new, but ''mission' used) in its tanning and finish process, it's quite possible.
Almost every high-end tanneries, and I am going to say specifically Shinki still produces horsehide, tri-chromium tanned, pigment finish (pigment (lacquer) sprayed on) for top tier leather goods makers, like Real Mccoy, Buzz, Jelados, Rainbow Country etc.

One of the main reasons it's not that popular with consumers of A-2's and other vintage oriented jackets enthusiasts is the appearance when new. It looks less appealing (compared to a vintage patinaed jacket) and too newish. This is due to the inherent characteristics of chrome-pigment finish ( less prone to scratches and has vivid colors, etc...).

If like me you are attracted like a moth to a flame to skins (leather) with character, salty, patinead and shiny, pure chrome and pigment finish, off the machinist table may not get my attention.

That being said, a combination of both tanning and dye/color finishes, plus the recoat/redye done by masters like JC will result or reproduced very nice skins.

I am saying yes a very close to an original overall finish and feel is out there and available. But I have a question, would you really like it?

We should also address the drape thing in another thread... Personally I dont give a rats ass to how my jackets drape me... I wear them how I want to.

D

Buzz Rickson is all veg-tanned Italian leather. The nice salesperson at Hinoya in Tokyo gave me their very nice glossy catalog. It tells all about it. They do, however, have one or two models that are pigment finish over that, as opposed to aniline.

 

[2BM2K]

I am saying yes a very close to an original overall finish and feel is out there and available. But I have a question, would you really like it?

Oh I would, 100%.

Why would anyone not like original A2 jacket leather?

This jacket has more of everything compared to any repro I have owned, Although the Goodwear comes close.

One thing about repro jacket leather I do not like is the way the underside is light in colour. On original leather the underside is darker, either russet or almost black on seal jackets. For example;

The flash makes it look lighter, it is very dark brown.

I guess there must be a difference in the tanning process.

 

[Dany McDonald]

Why would anyone not like original A2 jacket leather?

Well, yes of course I would go for an original... But that's not my question...

 

[Dany McDonald]

Buzz Rickson is all veg-tanned Italian leather. The nice salesperson at Hinoya in Tokyo gave me their very nice glossy catalog. It tells all about it. They do, however, have one or two models that are pigment finish over that, as opposed to aniline.

I have an older Buzz A-2 that I suspect being chrome tanned with aniline dye with a ''very worked'' finish, I love it.

Remember Buzz has been doing ''American casual'' jackets for quite a long time and I know chrome was not abandoned as a mean of look and finish. Maybe just not used in the current military lineup.

If the Japanese consumer goes crazy for a new A-2 in chrome for any good reason (look, finish, originality), you will smell it when buying one of ''Those Japanese made jacket''.

D

 

[Dany McDonald]

Oh and stunning Dubow by the way. Was the gilded Talon common on these? I don't have access to my bible...

 

[mulceber]

Oh and stunning Dubow by the way. Was the gilded Talon common on these? I don't have access to my bible...

Very.

 

[2BM2K]

Well, yes of course I would go for an original... But that's not my question...

Sorry, what I was trying to say is to have a modern repro leather just like original leather.

 

[2BM2K]

Oh and stunning Dubow by the way. Was the gilded Talon common on these? I don't have access to my bible...

This contract can be found with gilt or blackened zippers.

This particular zipper was firstly gilt, then had brown paint on the vertical bar and then blackened.
Only the blackening did not take very well and the gilt and brown paint are showing through.

 

[mulceber]

This contract can be found with gilt or blackened zippers.

This particular zipper was firstly gilt, then had brown paint on the vertical bar and then blackened.
Only the blackening did not take very well and the gilt and brown paint are showing through.

I’ve looked at a bunch of 1755s and the only place I’ve seen the blackened zipper is in Gary’s book. I’m sure they show up from time to time, but they seem to be MUCH less common than gilt.

 

[Dany McDonald]

Sorry, what I was trying to say is to have a modern repro leather just like original leather.

Agreed, and it would be fun to have some members post their modern top tier (Goodwear) in chrome/pigment to have a example to study and appreciate.

Personally, I incline to appreciate patinead skins, and yes originals with 80 years of weathering and what not are in a state a beauty. I am unsure if I would go for a strict chrome/pigment finish, untill I handle one...

Thank you,

D

 

[Dany McDonald]

This particular zipper was firstly gilt, then had brown paint on the vertical bar and then blackened.
Only the blackening did not take very well and the gilt and brown paint are showing through.

I will sound nerdy but I just love that slider and box!

 

[Nickb123]

Actually, if you (or me) are looking for a leather that ''looks'' or ''feel'' close to an original (not necessarily new, but ''mission' used) in its tanning and finish process, it's quite possible.
Almost every high-end tanneries, and I am going to say specifically Shinki still produces horsehide, tri-chromium tanned, pigment finish (pigment (lacquer) sprayed on) for top tier leather goods makers, like Real Mccoy, Buzz, Jelados, Rainbow Country etc.

One of the main reasons it's not that popular with consumers of A-2's and other vintage oriented jackets enthusiasts is the appearance when new. It looks less appealing (compared to a vintage patinaed jacket) and too newish. This is due to the inherent characteristics of chrome-pigment finish ( less prone to scratches and has vivid colors, etc...).

If like me you are attracted like a moth to a flame to skins (leather) with character, salty, patinead and shiny, pure chrome and pigment finish, off the machinist table may not get my attention.

That being said, a combination of both tanning and dye/color finishes, plus the recoat/redye done by masters like JC will result or reproduced very nice skins.

I am saying yes a very close to an original overall finish and feel is out there and available. But I have a question, would you really like it?

We should also address the drape thing in another thread... Personally I dont give a rats ass to how my jackets drape me... I wear them how I want to.

D

Here’s a 23380 from Good Wear in that same pigment Shinki leather. VERY regretful sell.