Lord Flashheart
Well-Known Member
RALPH EDWARDS SPORTSWEAR, INC. CONTRACT NO. DSA-1-4342-64-C courtesy of @Jorgeenriqueaguilera
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Discussion: “A Better Fighting Garment…” - A Beginner’s Guide to the US Navy’s WWII-era and later Intermediate Flight Jackets
- Thread starter Lord Flashheart
- Start date
Lord Flashheart
Well-Known Member
IRVIN B. FOSTER SPORTSWEAR CO. CONTRACT NO. DSA-100-598 courtesy of @Jorgeenriqueaguilera
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Lord Flashheart
Well-Known Member
IRVIN B. FOSTER SPORTSWEAR CO. CONTRACT NO. DSA-1-8826 courtesy of @Jorgeenriqueaguilera
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mulceber
Moderator
SUPERSEDED BY 2.0
11. MIL-J-7823D (WP) [1967 - 1970]
The 7823D (WP) is a controversial specification. Starting in 1967, it was produced until 1970. For 1967 - mid 1969, the 7823D (WP) specification was made from USN chrome-tanned seal brown goatskin with real mouton fur collars. However, sometime in mid 1969, the 7823D specification was amended to allow for faux mouton collars (80% Dynel, 20% cotton) and cowhide to be used instead. However, all 7823Ds retained double-ply no rib rack 100% wool knits. The possible combinations for 7823D G-1s are thus as follows: goatskin with real mouton, goatskin with Dynel collar, or cowhide with Dynel. Surprisingly, however, no cowhide and real mouton versions have been documented.
11. MIL-J-7823D (WP) [1967 - 1970]
The 7823D (WP) is a controversial specification. Starting in 1967, it was produced until 1970. For 1967 - mid 1969, the 7823D (WP) specification was made from USN chrome-tanned seal brown goatskin with real mouton fur collars. However, sometime in mid 1969, the 7823D specification was amended to allow for faux mouton collars (80% Dynel, 20% cotton) and cowhide to be used instead. However, all 7823Ds retained double-ply no rib rack 100% wool knits. The possible combinations for 7823D G-1s are thus as follows: goatskin with real mouton, goatskin with Dynel collar, or cowhide with Dynel. Surprisingly, however, no cowhide and real mouton versions have been documented.
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Lord Flashheart
Well-Known Member
SUPERSEDED BY 2.0
12. MIL-J-7823E (AS) [1971 - Present]
The 7823E (AS) was introduced in 1971. It adopted the amended features of the late 7823D models; that is, cowhide, dynel collars, and 100% wool, double-ply, no rib-rack knits. The feature that most distinguishes them, however, is the white (as opposed to black) spec label that made its first appearance here.
These are the most abundant but the least collectible of all G-1 types. Although most find that the cowhide creaks and the Dynel collars do not age as well as mouton (mouton tends to go from brown to golden with wear and exposure to the elements, whereas Dynel goes from black to a clumpy ‘dirty grey’), E series jackets are, nonetheless, genuine USN flight jackets and they make for incredibly durable, “where-anywhere, do-anything”, daily beaters. For someone starting to collect Navy flying jackets they can be a very accessible entry point.
12. MIL-J-7823E (AS) [1971 - Present]
The 7823E (AS) was introduced in 1971. It adopted the amended features of the late 7823D models; that is, cowhide, dynel collars, and 100% wool, double-ply, no rib-rack knits. The feature that most distinguishes them, however, is the white (as opposed to black) spec label that made its first appearance here.
These are the most abundant but the least collectible of all G-1 types. Although most find that the cowhide creaks and the Dynel collars do not age as well as mouton (mouton tends to go from brown to golden with wear and exposure to the elements, whereas Dynel goes from black to a clumpy ‘dirty grey’), E series jackets are, nonetheless, genuine USN flight jackets and they make for incredibly durable, “where-anywhere, do-anything”, daily beaters. For someone starting to collect Navy flying jackets they can be a very accessible entry point.
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Lord Flashheart
Well-Known Member
MIL-J-7823E (AS) BRILL BROS., INC. DSA100-75-C-0332 courtesy of @Jorgeenriqueaguilera
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Lord Flashheart
Well-Known Member
MIL-J-7823E (AS) RALPH EDWARDS SPORTSWEAR, INC. DSA100-77-C-1518, photos courtesy of @Jorgeenriqueaguilera
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YoungMedic
Well-Known Member
Great to see this pinned! Awesome work gents
Lord Flashheart
Well-Known Member
Thanks YM - we have a wrap up we'll post shortly and then we're done. As you can see from the contract information this is really only somewhere to start and there is so much more and so many unexplored avenues to complete the picture but hopefully we've set out a narrative which would really help a beginner.
Lord Flashheart
Well-Known Member
SUPERSEDED BY 2.0
Navy jackets in the movies - “Top Gun” [1986]
No discussion of Navy flight jackets would be complete without a brief nod to the film “Top Gun,” which for many is the first point of reference for the G-1 flight jacket. Many of us were first introduced to this hobby through memories of having watched the movie and admired Maverick’s jacket.
Reproductions of this film jacket are widely available, but it is not at this point known which contract (assuming it was not a studio jacket) Tom Cruise wore in the film. Our suspicion is that one of the jackets was a Foster 55J14 or at least was based on the Foster as some of the details seem just too good to be an 80’s repro.
It would be interesting to hear from anyone who worked on the film or might know more about this so, for now, we will simply speculate, after a conversation with a jacket maker, that Tom may have had more than one jacket in the costume wardrobe and one might’ve been a Foster 55J14.
Navy jackets in the movies - “Top Gun” [1986]
No discussion of Navy flight jackets would be complete without a brief nod to the film “Top Gun,” which for many is the first point of reference for the G-1 flight jacket. Many of us were first introduced to this hobby through memories of having watched the movie and admired Maverick’s jacket.
Reproductions of this film jacket are widely available, but it is not at this point known which contract (assuming it was not a studio jacket) Tom Cruise wore in the film. Our suspicion is that one of the jackets was a Foster 55J14 or at least was based on the Foster as some of the details seem just too good to be an 80’s repro.
It would be interesting to hear from anyone who worked on the film or might know more about this so, for now, we will simply speculate, after a conversation with a jacket maker, that Tom may have had more than one jacket in the costume wardrobe and one might’ve been a Foster 55J14.
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Lord Flashheart
Well-Known Member
A FEW CONCLUDING THOUGHTS:
In our introduction, we commented that, when you’re looking at Navy Intermediate Flight Jackets, it pays to look less for differences between jacket designations and more for differences between contracts & manufacturers. Regularly, when writing this thread, we found that what we thought might be a key point of difference between specifications more often than not wasn’t, and conversely, some critical changes were made across the board without a change in specification.
Production in relatively low volumes did mean that cost of the complex features in this jacket was not a prohibitive factor in the life of the design. That there was a regular need for, and agreement of, deviation from the specifications in manufacture until around 1960 suggests a pragmatism and a practicality, in BuAer, with the manufacturers that recognised the complexity of the jacket design.
What stands out is the endurance of the original principles of a bi-swing back, half belt, design. Features like the internal pocket and pencil slot were present from the start. The mouton collar, a desirable feature in an open cockpit, may have become an affectation in the jet age but they now distinguish USN flight jackets in the public eye like no other leather jacket.
If you own an original Navy leather jacket, regardless of its age, you can be proud that it is a true part of an unbroken line of aviation fighting garments designed to meet the needs of navy fliers from the piston to the jet age. Whilst more modern jackets may lack some of the individuality of earlier jackets they all follow the pre-war M-422 ideas. Modern originals can often be bought for very modest prices and are accessible way into this hobby whilst proving very practical hard wearing and comfortable leather jackets for everyday life.
A brief search on VLJ will demonstrate that there are reproductions of various interesting Navy contracts available from high end makers and an increasing number of jacket repro offerings from the mid range makers to reflect the growing interest in this area.
In closing we'd repeat our real appreciation to everyone who helped us put this guide together, contributed and provided photos as we posted the narrative. In particular we'd like to underline our thanks to @Jorgeenriqueaguilera, @mulceber, @Lord Flashheart, @MaydayWei, @Stony, @B-Man2, @Chandler and especially to John Chapman and Dave Sheeley, @Maverickson, for their insights.
SUPERSEDED BY 2.0
A NOTE ON NATO STOCK NUMBERS:
Every G-1 jacket post-NATO has what is called a NATO stock number. All that a NATO stock number does is allow the reader to know exactly what item they have. The NATO stock number for the G-1 Jacket (of all variations) [and post NATO] is either 8415-268-XXXX (older) or 8415-00-268-XXXX (newer). This is a minute detail which even high-end reproduction manufacturers such as the Real McCoys or Eastman Leather Company get wrong.
The first 4 digits denote the general class of item, the 2 digits following that denote the country, the following 3 digits denote the item itself, and the final 4 digits denote the item to its corresponding size.
Take for example the code: 8415-00-268-7797 or (the older variation) 8415-268-7797.
8415: means Clothing, special purpose (as opposed to Clothing, general purpose [8405])
00: is the country code for the USA (UK is 99)
268: is the specific code for G-1 jackets
7797: means a G-1 in the corresponding size of 36.
For G-1s, the final 4 digits increase by 1 for every size up and decrease by 1 for every size down.
So, for example:
A G-1 in size 36 will have a NATO code of: either 8415-268-7797 or 8415-00-268-7797
A G-1 in size 38 will have a NATO code of: either 8415-268-7798 or 8415-00-268-7798
A G-1 in size 40 will have a NATO code of: either 8415-268-7799 or 8415-00-268-7799
A G-1 in size 42 will have a NATO code of: either 8415-268-7800 or 8415-00-268-7800
A G-1 in size 44 will have a NATO code of: either 8415-268-7801 or 8415-00-268-7801
A G-1 in size 46 will have a NATO code of: either 8415-268-7802 or 8415-00-268-7802
The point is that in most commercial jackets or even high-end reproductions like Eastman Leather Company (Elite Units VF-143 Pukin Dogs 7823D (WP) G-1 Jacket) or the Real McCoy’s 7823C (WEP) “Steve McQueen Jacket” do not account for the change in the last 4 digits as they correspond to size. For example, an Eastman Elite Units VF-143 Pukin Dogs 7823D (WP) G-1’s label will always say 8415-268-7800 regardless of changes in size. Thus, indicating that Eastman copied the jacket from a size 42 7823D (WP) G-1 jacket.
A BRIEF NOTE ON BuAer
The Bureau of Aeronautics (BuAer) of the US Navy existed from 1921 to 1959. The first Chief of BuAer was Rear Admiral (RA) William A. Moffett from 1921 to 1933. He ensured naval aviation remained independent in the 1920’s when Army Brigadier General Billy Mitchell and others sought to merge US military aviation into a single independent air force.
Notable Chiefs of BuAer include John H. Towers (June 1939 - October 1942) who was the first naval aviator to achieve flag rank and was a leading advocate of Naval Aviation at a time when there was little or no support for it within or outside the Navy. His tenure in the period when war was becoming likely saw considerable expansion of the naval aircraft establishment and a rigorous pilot training programme. He was among the staff who had, in 1932, planned a “successful” attack on Pearl Harbor during a joint Army-Navy exercise in the Hawaiian Islands.
Towers was succeeded by RA John S. McCain Sr who was Chief between October 1942 and August 1943. He has been described as “preferring contentious conflict to cozy compromise”. At the time the AN-J-3 was developed, BuAer could well have considered an Intermediate flight jacket, shared with other branches of military aviation, to undermine the independence of Naval Aviation. Much as the Chief of AAF Hap Arnold had his own reasons to be sanguine about the failure of the shared AN-J-3 project it would be surprising if BuAer were any less relieved.
In 1956 the Military Clothing and Textile Supply Agency (MCTSA), an agency created under the Department of the Army, assumed responsibility for procurement of flying jackets of this type. Until entering into the L.W. Foster Sportswear contracts litigated in the 1968 case mentioned above the MCTSA had never contracted for any such flying jackets. Prior to letting the bids, the MCTSA prepared Interim Quality Assurance Provisions (IQAP) relating to inspections of the flying jackets. These were then approved by the Navy and incorporated in the contracts. The provisions of the IQAP were substantially the same as those which had governed inspections under L.W. Foster’s earlier contracts. The litigation reveals that in the process of resolving some of the inspection problems at the heart of the case, L.W. Foster contacted personnel of the Bureau of Aeronautics of the Navy who expressed views to the MCTSA. We can only guess what those views may have been.
A few useful links and references on VLJ:
The information here is based on the best available evidence we’ve drawn on at the time of writing. If you know more, please share. A number of past threads have informed our guide and include discussion of other aspects about these contracts. Some are listed here but this is by no means exhaustive and there are lots of gaps that remain to be filled.
In our introduction, we commented that, when you’re looking at Navy Intermediate Flight Jackets, it pays to look less for differences between jacket designations and more for differences between contracts & manufacturers. Regularly, when writing this thread, we found that what we thought might be a key point of difference between specifications more often than not wasn’t, and conversely, some critical changes were made across the board without a change in specification.
Production in relatively low volumes did mean that cost of the complex features in this jacket was not a prohibitive factor in the life of the design. That there was a regular need for, and agreement of, deviation from the specifications in manufacture until around 1960 suggests a pragmatism and a practicality, in BuAer, with the manufacturers that recognised the complexity of the jacket design.
What stands out is the endurance of the original principles of a bi-swing back, half belt, design. Features like the internal pocket and pencil slot were present from the start. The mouton collar, a desirable feature in an open cockpit, may have become an affectation in the jet age but they now distinguish USN flight jackets in the public eye like no other leather jacket.
If you own an original Navy leather jacket, regardless of its age, you can be proud that it is a true part of an unbroken line of aviation fighting garments designed to meet the needs of navy fliers from the piston to the jet age. Whilst more modern jackets may lack some of the individuality of earlier jackets they all follow the pre-war M-422 ideas. Modern originals can often be bought for very modest prices and are accessible way into this hobby whilst proving very practical hard wearing and comfortable leather jackets for everyday life.
A brief search on VLJ will demonstrate that there are reproductions of various interesting Navy contracts available from high end makers and an increasing number of jacket repro offerings from the mid range makers to reflect the growing interest in this area.
In closing we'd repeat our real appreciation to everyone who helped us put this guide together, contributed and provided photos as we posted the narrative. In particular we'd like to underline our thanks to @Jorgeenriqueaguilera, @mulceber, @Lord Flashheart, @MaydayWei, @Stony, @B-Man2, @Chandler and especially to John Chapman and Dave Sheeley, @Maverickson, for their insights.
SUPERSEDED BY 2.0
A NOTE ON NATO STOCK NUMBERS:
Every G-1 jacket post-NATO has what is called a NATO stock number. All that a NATO stock number does is allow the reader to know exactly what item they have. The NATO stock number for the G-1 Jacket (of all variations) [and post NATO] is either 8415-268-XXXX (older) or 8415-00-268-XXXX (newer). This is a minute detail which even high-end reproduction manufacturers such as the Real McCoys or Eastman Leather Company get wrong.
The first 4 digits denote the general class of item, the 2 digits following that denote the country, the following 3 digits denote the item itself, and the final 4 digits denote the item to its corresponding size.
Take for example the code: 8415-00-268-7797 or (the older variation) 8415-268-7797.
8415: means Clothing, special purpose (as opposed to Clothing, general purpose [8405])
00: is the country code for the USA (UK is 99)
268: is the specific code for G-1 jackets
7797: means a G-1 in the corresponding size of 36.
For G-1s, the final 4 digits increase by 1 for every size up and decrease by 1 for every size down.
So, for example:
A G-1 in size 36 will have a NATO code of: either 8415-268-7797 or 8415-00-268-7797
A G-1 in size 38 will have a NATO code of: either 8415-268-7798 or 8415-00-268-7798
A G-1 in size 40 will have a NATO code of: either 8415-268-7799 or 8415-00-268-7799
A G-1 in size 42 will have a NATO code of: either 8415-268-7800 or 8415-00-268-7800
A G-1 in size 44 will have a NATO code of: either 8415-268-7801 or 8415-00-268-7801
A G-1 in size 46 will have a NATO code of: either 8415-268-7802 or 8415-00-268-7802
The point is that in most commercial jackets or even high-end reproductions like Eastman Leather Company (Elite Units VF-143 Pukin Dogs 7823D (WP) G-1 Jacket) or the Real McCoy’s 7823C (WEP) “Steve McQueen Jacket” do not account for the change in the last 4 digits as they correspond to size. For example, an Eastman Elite Units VF-143 Pukin Dogs 7823D (WP) G-1’s label will always say 8415-268-7800 regardless of changes in size. Thus, indicating that Eastman copied the jacket from a size 42 7823D (WP) G-1 jacket.
A BRIEF NOTE ON BuAer
The Bureau of Aeronautics (BuAer) of the US Navy existed from 1921 to 1959. The first Chief of BuAer was Rear Admiral (RA) William A. Moffett from 1921 to 1933. He ensured naval aviation remained independent in the 1920’s when Army Brigadier General Billy Mitchell and others sought to merge US military aviation into a single independent air force.
Notable Chiefs of BuAer include John H. Towers (June 1939 - October 1942) who was the first naval aviator to achieve flag rank and was a leading advocate of Naval Aviation at a time when there was little or no support for it within or outside the Navy. His tenure in the period when war was becoming likely saw considerable expansion of the naval aircraft establishment and a rigorous pilot training programme. He was among the staff who had, in 1932, planned a “successful” attack on Pearl Harbor during a joint Army-Navy exercise in the Hawaiian Islands.
Towers was succeeded by RA John S. McCain Sr who was Chief between October 1942 and August 1943. He has been described as “preferring contentious conflict to cozy compromise”. At the time the AN-J-3 was developed, BuAer could well have considered an Intermediate flight jacket, shared with other branches of military aviation, to undermine the independence of Naval Aviation. Much as the Chief of AAF Hap Arnold had his own reasons to be sanguine about the failure of the shared AN-J-3 project it would be surprising if BuAer were any less relieved.
In 1956 the Military Clothing and Textile Supply Agency (MCTSA), an agency created under the Department of the Army, assumed responsibility for procurement of flying jackets of this type. Until entering into the L.W. Foster Sportswear contracts litigated in the 1968 case mentioned above the MCTSA had never contracted for any such flying jackets. Prior to letting the bids, the MCTSA prepared Interim Quality Assurance Provisions (IQAP) relating to inspections of the flying jackets. These were then approved by the Navy and incorporated in the contracts. The provisions of the IQAP were substantially the same as those which had governed inspections under L.W. Foster’s earlier contracts. The litigation reveals that in the process of resolving some of the inspection problems at the heart of the case, L.W. Foster contacted personnel of the Bureau of Aeronautics of the Navy who expressed views to the MCTSA. We can only guess what those views may have been.
A few useful links and references on VLJ:
The information here is based on the best available evidence we’ve drawn on at the time of writing. If you know more, please share. A number of past threads have informed our guide and include discussion of other aspects about these contracts. Some are listed here but this is by no means exhaustive and there are lots of gaps that remain to be filled.
- https://www.vintageleatherjackets.org/threads/main-differences-m422-vs-g1.21748/
- https://www.vintageleatherjackets.org/threads/duplicated-fathers-original-g-1-flight-jacket.20658/
- https://www.vintageleatherjackets.o...lothing-and-g-1-jackets-from-the-label.26620/
- https://www.vintageleatherjackets.org/threads/silk-stitched-usn-m-422a-jackets.24463/
- https://www.vintageleatherjackets.org/threads/contract-date-versus-production-date-an-6552.8286/
- https://www.vintageleatherjackets.o...-us-govt-over-g-1-contract-from-1958-9.26621/
- https://www.vintageleatherjackets.org/threads/a-2-to-an-j-3a-conversion-skips-the-an-j-3.26210/
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Brettafett
Well-Known Member
Impeccable! And outstanding!
Many thanks for the considerable time and effort put into this very thorough and detailed accounting of USN jackets.
Many thanks for the considerable time and effort put into this very thorough and detailed accounting of USN jackets.
Brettafett
Well-Known Member
Regarding Tom Cruise's G-1 in the 1986 movie.
The jacket was almost certainly an original. I seem to recall, that the jacket Cruise wore, was a small size 36 (its in someones collection).
The patches however, appear to be a mix & match, likely added by the wardrobe dept for the film... (to be corrected?)
Avirex (now Cockpit USA) partnered with Paramount to promote the film, and launched their 'Top Gun' line in various versions, the "Movie Hero" Top Gun Navy G-1 Jacket, being the most 'authentic'.
These jackets are not based on any particular contract as far as I understand, but more a composite/ generic pattern, made from goatskin and weathered. Other 'bomber' versions, made from lambskin.
The history of Avirex is nicely portrayed in the book, Cowboys of the Sky by Gilles Lhote and Jeff Clyman.
Note: Avirex also partnered with Warner Bros to promote 'The Right Stuff' in 1983, re-popularising the A-2 flight jacket... And Rocky III (Rocky wore a B-3 Shearling)
Although Cockpit USA does not reproduce original maker, contract-specific flight jackets, their jackets are well-made and wear well.
One can almost say that Avirex's promo partnerships with these movie studios, helped enormously in re-invigorating modern interest in 'bomber' jackets.
Another film flaunting an original G-1 is 'Tuff Turf' 1985. What makes this jacket interesting, is that it sports a leather collar, likely having had the mouton removed at some point during its service life.
(Cockpit USA produces a Gulf of Tonkin "Forrestal" G-1 without the fur mouton)
The jacket was almost certainly an original. I seem to recall, that the jacket Cruise wore, was a small size 36 (its in someones collection).
The patches however, appear to be a mix & match, likely added by the wardrobe dept for the film... (to be corrected?)
Avirex (now Cockpit USA) partnered with Paramount to promote the film, and launched their 'Top Gun' line in various versions, the "Movie Hero" Top Gun Navy G-1 Jacket, being the most 'authentic'.
These jackets are not based on any particular contract as far as I understand, but more a composite/ generic pattern, made from goatskin and weathered. Other 'bomber' versions, made from lambskin.
The history of Avirex is nicely portrayed in the book, Cowboys of the Sky by Gilles Lhote and Jeff Clyman.
Note: Avirex also partnered with Warner Bros to promote 'The Right Stuff' in 1983, re-popularising the A-2 flight jacket... And Rocky III (Rocky wore a B-3 Shearling)
Although Cockpit USA does not reproduce original maker, contract-specific flight jackets, their jackets are well-made and wear well.
One can almost say that Avirex's promo partnerships with these movie studios, helped enormously in re-invigorating modern interest in 'bomber' jackets.
Another film flaunting an original G-1 is 'Tuff Turf' 1985. What makes this jacket interesting, is that it sports a leather collar, likely having had the mouton removed at some point during its service life.
(Cockpit USA produces a Gulf of Tonkin "Forrestal" G-1 without the fur mouton)
mulceber
Moderator
Thank you for getting us over the finish line, Phil. Nicely done.
I was really wowed by all of the people who contributed to this thread. From almost the first page there were people who weren’t originally involved in the project but who came forward wanting to share pictures of their G-1s. They really made this a community effort. And that’s not even getting into Jorge’s contributions, which are evident to anyone who even opens the thread. This project mostly would have been a wall of text without him.
Phil is really the MVP of this one. He was the one who came up with this project, and at every turn, he was involved, keeping us on track, providing feedback on ideas, adding new ideas of his own, adding photos. This project was a group effort, but he was the one leading the charge.
I was really wowed by all of the people who contributed to this thread. From almost the first page there were people who weren’t originally involved in the project but who came forward wanting to share pictures of their G-1s. They really made this a community effort. And that’s not even getting into Jorge’s contributions, which are evident to anyone who even opens the thread. This project mostly would have been a wall of text without him.
Phil is really the MVP of this one. He was the one who came up with this project, and at every turn, he was involved, keeping us on track, providing feedback on ideas, adding new ideas of his own, adding photos. This project was a group effort, but he was the one leading the charge.
Brettafett
Well-Known Member
This will really become THE reference for anyone really interested in these jackets.
Again, thank you all very much!
Again, thank you all very much!
entertainment
Well-Known Member
Awesome, just awesome!
MaydayWei
Well-Known Member
Perfectly put!
