Combat clone no4

[foster]

How about "Contract Clone"? - no wear, just the imperfections, as you state.

The name works as a description, but phonetically it is similar to "Combat Clone" and might get mixed up at the customer level.

Some other possible ideas (not entirely serious here, but in effort to offer continued amusement of the concept):
"Rationed Resources"
"Slapped Together"
"Shift Change Special"
"Knock it Out"
"Stitched in Time"
"Made by Miss Dee Stitch"
"Close Enough for Government Work"
"Sew Wrong, but So Right!"

DISCLAIMER: The above is not in reference to any current maker or makers of A2 jackets, but is only intended as a parody of manufacturing shortgaps used both now and in WWII.

 

[Roughwear]

How about "Contract Clone"? - no wear, just the imperfections, as you state.

The name works as a description, but phonetically it is similar to "Combat Clone" and might get mixed up at the customer level.

Some other possible ideas (not entirely serious here, but in effort to offer continued amusement of the concept):
"Rationed Resources"
"Slapped Together"
"Shift Change Special"
"Knock it Out"
"Stitched in Time"
"Made by Miss Dee Stitch"
"Close Enough for Government Work"
"Sew Wrong, but So Right!"

DISCLAIMER: The above is not in reference to any current maker or makers of A2 jackets, but is only intended as a parody of manufacturing shortgaps used both now and in WWII.

Excellent stuff Sean. :lol: :lol:

 

[FlyingYankee]

Kinda sad I will never achieve that WWII look with my premium GWs no matter how much I wear it. I am thinking of wearing my jacket in salt water, rolling in the sand then wearing in the hot sun until dry to see if that works. Any other ideas on how to break in a jacket?

 

[blackrat2]

I agree with some on here,I think the imperfections is what I would ask for if I was buying new,as for wear,well I will stick to my usual plan...wear as often as possible,don't be afraid of a good old soak in the rain..wear until dry and let the bugger brush up on anything that will add to the overall patina
Thanks John really interesting stuff from you ref the differences in leather,I should try post some pics of my jacket on this thread as it looks stunning the more it's worn.
Great thread

 

[unclegrumpy]

Kinda sad I will never achieve that WWII look with my premium GWs no matter how much I wear it. I am thinking of wearing my jacket in salt water, rolling in the sand then wearing in the hot sun until dry to see if that works.

I'll be anxious to see your "how to" youtube on this treatment.... :shock:

I have always been of the opinion, that the "wear" issue is more about the finish that goes or went on the leather, rather than the leather itself. I have owned original A-2s that have had moderate wear, and look exactly like my broken in GWs....or "better".

However, I would say the composition of the finish on most original A-2s is different than what is used on modern leather. I don't know the chemistry of it, but the old stuff is more like a paint that gradually wears away. My house is painted with a solid stain, and this is exactly what it does...gradually wears away over time. The original paint finish on a WW II jeep does the same thing....as does the finish on many well worn A-2's....like the Dubow linked earlier in this thread.

I think the real issue is the hardiness, durability, and overall toughness of the modern leather finishes. One day, maybe, a tannery will offer something more like the old stuff again. However, it will probably take a new fashion trend for it to trickle down to us, and who knows if or when that will ever happen, or if we will still be around to benefit from it.

 

[Anonymous]

Kinda sad I will never achieve that WWII look with my premium GWs no matter how much I wear it. I am thinking of wearing my jacket in salt water, rolling in the sand then wearing in the hot sun until dry to see if that works. Any other ideas on how to break in a jacket?

I'll be anxious to see your "how to" youtube on this treatment.... :shock:

see example here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmY4P82nUI

 

[2BM2K]

One day, maybe, a tannery will offer something more like the old stuff again.

Historically accurate leather?

There is a brief review on the FL; http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?78603-Aerial-Star-A-2-Jacket-Mini-review-and-pictures!

 

[Marv]

Kinda sad I will never achieve that WWII look with my premium GWs no matter how much I wear it. I am thinking of wearing my jacket in salt water, rolling in the sand then wearing in the hot sun until dry to see if that works. Any other ideas on how to break in a jacket?

I'll be anxious to see your "how to" youtube on this treatment.... :shock:

see example here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmY4P82nUI

I wouldn't feel so bad attempting this with a £200 or so jacket but not a $1500 GW A2..........

 

[johnwayne]

Top thread this is and great input from the master - thanks JC!!
Cheers
Wayne

 

[FlyingYankee]

Kinda sad I will never achieve that WWII look with my premium GWs no matter how much I wear it. I am thinking of wearing my jacket in salt water, rolling in the sand then wearing in the hot sun until dry to see if that works. Any other ideas on how to break in a jacket?

I'll be anxious to see your "how to" youtube on this treatment.... :shock:

see example here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmY4P82nUI

I wouldn't feel so bad attempting this with a £200 or so jacket but not a $1500 GW A2..........

Agree, Normal wear and tear will do just fine

 

[a2jacketpatches]

I have always investigated the option of coloring my own leather because the perfectly thin lamb and goat skins can be had for 1/4 the cost of finished hides. I'm not out to have them wear down like the old leather or an A2, but to be strong and durable like modern finished leather. From what I gather, the new methods are using epoxy pigmented spray, and from purchasing countless finished hides over the years, the durability varies greatly from hide to hide but 99% seem to be strong enough. I did find a company that supplies this type of leather colorant and the process is a little more involved than what I explain here. But I decided against it as it would require another section in my shop dedicated to the process.

That being said, the info must be out there as to the formula for a period accurate leather finish spray. Must be a pigmented lacquer of some kind, or maybe some form of milk paint, maybe even shellac based. Who knows? But the stuff they're using these days is certainly a two part resin based chemically reacting finish from what I'm told and common sense about painting everything from canvas to cars over the years. So I think it may be quite the challenge finding a company willing to abandon these modern tried and true methods to dedicate serious manpower, research, and money into replicating the old school process of finishing leather. On a much smaller scale, I have endlessly experimented with the old materials to accurately reproduce leather colorant for patches but have given up. Just too risky to have a patch sewn on an expensive jacket and have it fail miserably over a short period of time, just can't tell what will happen.

 

[unclegrumpy]

A lot, if not the majority, of layered leather patches from WW II came out of the CBI Theater, mostly from India. Many of those patches proved quite durable, especially the coloring of the individual leather pieces themselves. I don't know what kind of dye or paint the locals used to create their patches, but I suspect it's ingredients were largely based in nature, rather than chemical companies modern laboratories.

Part of the disconnect in this discussion, is many...probably most...of the buyers of both high end jackets and the patches that go on them, really have no idea of what the originals were really like....and don't care about them either. What they care about is "a look", "a fashion", and a host of other things that trump originality....or more to the point, duplicating something in the most accurate way possible.

Eternally maintaining out of the wrapper newness is also a key factor that clearly is more important to many buyers than historical accuracy. As long as "new" is better than "old"....especially with the people with the money that drives the market....not much is going to change. All we can really hope for is the day when it won't be "cool" to look brand new....then things will change in a hurry.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

A lot, if not the majority, of layered leather patches from WW II came out of the CBI Theater, mostly from India. Many of those patches proved quite durable, especially the coloring of the individual leather pieces themselves. I don't know what kind of dye or paint the locals used to create their patches, but I suspect it's ingredients were largely based in nature, rather than chemical companies modern laboratories.

Part of the disconnect in this discussion, is many...probably most...of the buyers of both high end jackets and the patches that go on them, really have no idea of what the originals were really like....and don't care about them either. What they care about is "a look", "a fashion", and a host of other things that trump originality....or more to the point, duplicating something in the most accurate way possible.

Eternally maintaining out of the wrapper newness is also a key factor that clearly is more important to many buyers than historical accuracy. As long as "new" is better than "old"....especially with the people with the money that drives the market....not much is going to change. All we can really hope for is the day when it won't be "cool" to look brand new....then things will change in a hurry.

Agree completely, but I'm also talking about painted patches, back paintings, etc. Just finish up with a PM on the subject and no reason why I can't paste it in here -

If someone comes up with 100% accurately finished leather for A2's intended to wear down and look used, I may proceed with an equally accurate method of coloring my leather. The difference between the two is that A2's were a commercial grade factory finish, and I can use just about anything from natural vegetable dyes to oil paint and be right on. Paintings on the back of A2's done in oil paint would be unarguably period correct. I have had some requests in the past and have experimented with the idea and having good results. For instance, I can make a patch to wear down and look authentic, then treat with shellac or something to freeze that wear so it doesn't get any worse. What I meant in the thread is that the modern repro jacket won't keep up with wear equal to the patches or painting I do and look out of place before you know it.

 

[ButteMT61]

...As long as "new" is better than "old"....especially with the people with the money that drives the market....not much is going to change. All we can really hope for is the day when it won't be "cool" to look brand new....then things will change in a hurry.

I have to disagree there. I think there is a HUGE base of people that indeed love beat up, old and old-looking gear. It's more popular than ever - and people are paying big bucks for it - either in repops or vintage/rare items. I'd wager that's why JC is moving on this lineup. Or I could be talking out my backside like usual... :lol:

 

[foster]

I think there is demand, but are many people actually paying a premium for it?

And what is the resale value for one of these? Those who buy a distressed A2 because they don't want to invest the time in wearing it seem (to me) more likely to grow tired of it and put it up for sale. Would such an item have the same value on the second-hand market? My guess is no, because I was the only person interested in a ELC "Time-worn" jacket two years ago. Picked it up for a steal of a deal, the seller made some comment that people didn't want the broken-in look.

Just asking questions for the sake of discussion. That, and because I am deliberately procrastinating on something I need to work on this afternoon.

 

[unclegrumpy]

What I meant in the thread is that the modern repro jacket won't keep up with wear equal to the patches or painting I do and look out of place before you know it.

That is a great point!

As far as Foster's comments regarding buying distressed jackets, I tend to both agree....and disagree. Personally, I am in the camp that would like to purchase a new jacket that will wear and age exactly as an original one did.....and I'll happily just wear it to get it the way I want it.

However, if it becomes the fashion to wear something beat up, and the current leather finishes don't lend to it, then people will break out he sandpaper to create the look that the "cool" people with money desire. They...the buyers... will pay more for it, not less....and won't give a rip about the resale value or how authentic the treatment is. I don't know about you, but I have seen some really dumb looking artificially aged jeans, some my wife says were $1000....or more.

I remember about 20 years ago, some lady....a "clothing designer".....in Beverly Hills...was taking Navy mess dress jackets and hot gluing all sorts of things....gaudy fringe, fancy medals, gold bullion, and who knows what else on them, all to create a look....think Michael Jackson on steroids. These "originals" sold for big bucks....like thousands of dollars....but are worth what today???

Oh well.....

 

[FlyingYankee]

As long as my jackets don't age faster than I do I should be in good shape.

 

[devilish]

I have to say that I've never bought any item of clothing with any thought as to what it's resale value would be. As I said I like the Combat Clones, this latest one being my personal favorite and if I were to buy it I couldn't care less what it would fetch used.
I'm obviously glad that many people do sell their jackets because I happily buy them. However it also saddens me a little that a lot of owners of the high end repros never seem to actually wear them, ever. It is either out of fear or because they were acquired just for the sake of acquisition. It boggles my mind that an item of clothing would be bought and then not worn.
I know we all make errors in judgement from time to time and weight loss or gain come into play so stuff gets sold but buying just to hold on to it and then sell again later with no thought to wearing it is just not how I'm built.

 

[FlyingYankee]

I would love a combat clone Aero with red knits and aged CBI patches from Sean Collins

 

[unclegrumpy]

I would love a combat clone Aero with red knits and aged CBI patches from Sean Collins

That would be cool!