Buttoned Pocket Flaps A-2 Jackets

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Generally speaking, early epaulette fitting was more often on top of, and hiding, the shoulder seam, later versions, 1930s tended to be mostly infront of the shoulder seam like most A-2s
Bike jackets generally being the exception to this rule

 

[Geeboo]

If I were to repro 33-1729, should I place the epaulet in front of the shoulder seam ? I don't really get what 2BM2K means " epaulette draws back over the shoulder "

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

If I were to repro 33-1729, should I place the epaulet in front of the shoulder seam ? I don't really get what 2BM2K means " epaulette draws back over the shoulder "

I'm not familiar enough with that contract to answer you, maybe Andrew knows?

" epaulette draws back over the shoulder"
If the epaulette is sewn over (on top of) the shoulder seam it will sit (draw) further back than if it is sewn infront of it

 

[Roughwear]

The back of the epaulet on the Werber 33-1729 is aligned to the shoulder seam rather than the seam being centred under the epaulet as seen in some WW2 contracts.

 

[Roughwear]

If I were to repro 33-1729, should I place the epaulet in front of the shoulder seam ? I don't really get what 2BM2K means " epaulette draws back over the shoulder "

Are you planning on getting one made then? Eastman makes a fine repro and JC has made examples too.

 

[Geeboo]

"The back of the epaulet on the Werber 33-1729 is aligned to the shoulder seam " - epaulet in front of the shoulder seam, right ?
Yes, I plan to do 1 myself [sewing by a tailor] - I have made some leather jackets before. It is my hobby.

 

[2BM2K]

"epaulette draws back over the shoulder"

To clarify, I meant that due to the design of the jacket the epaulette does not sit correctly on the shoulder.
Instead it sits at an angle going from the neck diagonally behind the back at the shoulder.

This can be seen in this Eastman Werber; http://vintageleatherjackets.org/threads/my-new-elc-werber-1729.20814/

 

[Geeboo]

"epaulette draws back over the shoulder"

To clarify, I meant that due to the design of the jacket the epaulette does not sit correctly on the shoulder.
Instead it sits at an angle going from the neck diagonally behind the back at the shoulder.

This can be seen in this Eastman Werber; http://vintageleatherjackets.org/threads/my-new-elc-werber-1729.20814/

Diagonally across ??? - can you post a detail picture ?

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Ah........the shoulder seam has quite an angle to it, the pattern is cut more like a Levi leather jacket of that era or even a tailored suit. Leather jackets don't usually have a steep shoulder seam line.

Here's a Levi 1930s back, you can see the exaggerated angle of the shoulder seam, the Werber isn't quite that obvious but it's why the epaulette sits further back than with a straight shoulder seam

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Epaulette sewn over shoulder seam

 

[Roughwear]

An original Werber 44-1729 showing the position for the epaulets.

 

[2BM2K]

Here is another photo. An enlarged detail from a 1933 photo.
Look at the epaulettes of the standing man with light coloured cuffs.

 

[33-1729]

View attachment 6108

I have cropped the trio picture and magnified the picture of Arnold's jacket. Here it is in close up. I notice the collar stand is significantly wider than that found on the Security or the Wereber 1729. The double stitching on the pockets, mentioned by Jay is interesting too. I was wrong about the Werber attribution and suspect it is one of the 25 jackets made by Goldsmith under the 31-1897 order.

It’s a guess that the pre-production A-2 prototypes were A-1 based using the newfangled zipper and that all the production A-2 jackets, beginning with the Goldsmith 31-1897, had epaulets based upon the (unlocated) 30-1415 drawing. But if we go with that I think Roughwear makes excellent arguments that Hap Arnold’s jacket is a Goldsmith 31-1897. That very wide collar stand is not seen by any other maker, is it?

2Bm2K implies the jacket in the center of the picture 2BM2K posted on post#99 may be a Werber 32-6225 as the Werber 33-1729 was the first jacket to switch from button to snap pockets (as far as we know only contracts 31-1897, 32-485, and 32-6225 had buttoned pockets). Yes? No? I would assume any jacket after 33-1729 would have snap pockets, such as the next known contract for Werber 34-518P.

 

[2BM2K]

Yes Werber 32-6225.

 

[Skyhawk]

Here is another photo. An enlarged detail from a 1933 photo.
Look at the epaulettes of the standing man with light coloured cuffs.


View attachment 6117

That could be another shot of one! The pockets look like they could have the double stitch lines and those epaulettes are way back.

Also a similar collar shape that doesn't appear to have snaps. That would be the clincher but unfortunately the photo is not clear.

 

[33-1729]

Yes Werber 32-6225.

Making Major Spaatz's jacket in post #49 a likely A-2 pre-production jacket (aka an A-1 with a zipper). Yes?

 

[Roughwear]

Here is another photo. An enlarged detail from a 1933 photo.
Look at the epaulettes of the standing man with light coloured cuffs.


View attachment 6117

The chap at the back on the right seems to have the collar loop/latch/tab as seen on the photo of the Arnold jacket and also has smaller pockets, another Goldsmith A-2 perhaps?

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

We might be in danger of seeing things we want to see, I think I can see a loop on the collar of the flier fourth from left

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

So that's two of us independently can see that..............

 

[Ken at Aero Leather]

Same name tag position as Hap Arnold too unless that's a folded up copy of The Sunday Post sticking out of his pocket