Are Vintage Flying Jackets Investments?

[ButteMT61]

There have been a number of current, top young stars wearing vintage (WWII) A-2s.
They have money and stylists that at least know what to buy. It influences young folks, but likely many wasn't appreciate the historic value as much as looking cool. Nothing wrong with that. James Dean and others did the same. My son and his friends are a hybrid - they enjoy them as fashion items, but know and appreciate the historic value as well. To me, better than gathering moths, but to each his/her own.

 

[Rutger]

Is there anyone here who has invested in VFJ with the reasoning it will add (considerably) to the retirement pay?
Or to make extra money to cover future expenses? I hardly think so, it's likely money not needed at all and spent on jackets that in due time might repay themselves with maybe a small bonus (but no guarantees).
I'd guess the real top jackets (aces) will be a good investment for the history attached to it.

Another way of investing (short term) might be to buy on the American market and sell on to the Japanese.

Some are short term investors who buy cheaply on estate sales (or similar) and sell on quickly, which is investing as well, having to spend a lot of time (and petrol). They'll probably be the ones who can cherry pick and could save them as long term investment.

I recently saw that leather flight jackets in Japan from RMC etc are about $2000 new. Surely there's a 30% bonus for being a fashion item?

 

[ButteMT61]

The days of counting on anything to retire on are gone, IMO.
I buy things I like. If I can make a buck later, great.
You can't count on stocks, bonds, 401k, real estate or any collectible to be eternally going up in value. Collect and buy things you like and enjoy. Try to invest smartly to live out your life.
But don't count on a jacket(s) to buy that home and Ferrari in Tuscany. :LOL:

 

[bobbyball]

My reason for buying is that I really cherish the history and the search for the story behind who once wore these things. Any of us can have a repro and however fine a repro it is that is only what it will ever be. Of course, originals are an 'investment' if they have provenance and are in 'good original' condition (like any antique or collectable), but I would not use the investment angle with a certain view to making a huge profit – we on the VLJ and other collectors of this stuff are a strange bunch and I suspect iincreasingly becoming a minority (how many 20-30 year olds are interseted in this stuff?) and the comparatively low prices of 20/30 years ago are long gone. As some of us already know, Aero Leather used to have a Thrift Shop in Clapham Junction and their catalogue from the 80s lists painted A-2s in mint condition for £180! ; and even an M-422a attributed to Pappy Boyington (£400). I used to go there regularly but never had more than £100 to spend so they might as well have been £2000 jackets by today's standards. If only...

If I had bought back then I could sell now and be a rich man! (if this is the motivation).

My advice is buy because you love the history and appreciate the significance of these 'old leather jackets' as my wife calls them. Our vivid imagination and conjecture we use to fill in the gaps of known or partial history is priceless, and for me, it is what collecting is all about.

 

[handworn]

The short answer is that literally everything you spend money on is an investment. Most out there are bad ones, at least for you, which is why they need advertising.

So what about collectibles like militaria and specifically flight jackets? I've collected antiques and been an investor in "regular" investments for almost a couple decades now, and I have learned a few things.

1. An old antique dealer's saying (I heard it from a dealer in Kentucky rifles, specifically) said, "The business is in the buying." And my reading of Warren Buffett's essays suggests that he agrees. The return on your investment depends on what you paid relative to what you got. Buffett tries to pay 3-7 times what the investment will go up in value every year, the equivalent of buying a flight jacket that is worth $50 more every year for $150-$350. (Good luck! But he manages it somehow.)

2. Collectibles are in competition not only with other kinds of existing collectibles, as interests wax and wane (something Hollywood affects a good deal) but with new kinds: "used stuff" becomes collectibles with the simply passage of time. Think of it like the Federal government slowly but constantly printing money. WWII stuff is pretty well-placed, that way, in the same way as the Civil War. Both have their drama built in.

3. Liquidity matters. The easier something is to value, the easier it is to sell, and so the more it's worth. Old coins, stamps and books have formal grading systems. The stuff at the top always sells and the stuff at the bottom always sells, but the stuff in the vast middle ground always suffers during economic downturns and wars.

There are other, related things, but these are the main ones (and I'm being called off to decorate a birthday cake). Mostly, people are ill-advised to try to make serious money on collectibles; there are just too many variables relative to how much return you get. I don't mean pay no attention to price or value-- as I say, everything is an investment, so do your best-- but your enjoyment of the thing is going to be a lot of the return you get.

 

[FtrPlt]

Just like anything else, this is a supply and demand exercise. IMO, the reason you see fewer younger buyers for any particular item simply has to do with cost. There just aren't that many 20-somethings out there willing to shell out $2500 for an A-2. As supplies diminish, prices increase and more and more people are squeezed out of the market. Eventually the market will seek balance. Without a crystal ball, we really have no idea when that will occur.

Plus there is effect of events leaving living memory. WW2 ended nearly 70 years ago, making the very youngest vets nearly 90 years old. The children and grandchildren of these vets will retain memories of knowing these gents when they were alive but the firsthand connection will be severed after that. In another generation or two, USAAF crews in their leather A-2s will look about as dated as WW1 soldiers in their puttees and tin hats look to us today. What effect will that have on future collecting interest? Again, the great unknown.

I've been an RAF collector for several decades and much of my collection has been direct-vet acquisition. While I enjoy the items I have, I believe the appreciation largely stems from knowing the story behind each piece. I'm the temporary guardian of the items in my collection. It's never been about investment or profit. Obviously, I'll ultimately have to sell off at least some of it. I'm actually not sure what my expectations will be, financially, when that day comes.

 

[dmar836]

I'm in the same boat. Will amassing more of this flight gear be for naught in the end? In other words will my wife have lots of severely devalued stuff to unload with few to help assess it? I know we always remind each other to "collect because you like it" (duh) but I won't spend $5000 on a painted A-2 just so I can look at it unless it can hold some value. I won't spend that much anyway! Coffee table books would be a wiser investment there.
The changing times are becoming more evident daily to me. I have nice "film" camera gear from when I did pro photography that is virtually useless now. About $10K that is maybe bringing $1000 on the market today. Technology does that.
I had a 76yo patient last week who said he collected old baseball cards. I mentioned a few I had and how the market appeared to fall apart on both cards and comic books. He said, "Kids nowadays just want to play video games." I think that, if anything, is what will be the death of historical collecting.
When this thread started I talked to Linda about it and about the drop in Civil War collecting, etc. My wife countered by saying, "The difference is that WWII was the first well-filmed war so.................." I have great doubts.
I am developing a financial limit to the stuff personally for these reasons alone.
Dave

 

[Anonymous]

They are as long as you can buy them cheap and sell them expensive.
Never happened to me so far.

 

[FlyingYankee]

Buy a nice jacket that fit and enjoy it. People that make money in vintage clothes buy low and sell high. But still It ain't that easy. I like Rolex watches and I am lucky to break even if I had to sell. If my kids sell my Goodwear after I die then the jacket was a good investment(for them)