Anyone interested in Fivestar horsehide? 3 shades in progress..

[Persimmon]

In all the years I’ve been wearing flight jackets around, I’ve only had one person identify my jacket as an A-2. One. And that was my geology professor back in 2004.
So if someone comes up on the street and calls out my Hap Arnold wings, I don’t think I would even be mad. Honestly, I’d be impressed.

....And even more so, no one will determine what kind of skin it is...horse or cow.. imho

All true.
So it does beg the question why we insist that the A2 jacket we buy has to be that stitch by stitch, exact 1942 in a box replica etc etc.

Of course as it’s our money we want what we perceive to be the best. But if no one else knows really, who cares it might be said.

Well I guess we do so if something is wrong in this case - Decals - it needed to have been made correctly for the person who paid for and is the one wearing the jacket.

When you wear it you know it’s wrong. That’s reason enough to get details like that correct. Not to satisfy the uneducated public.

With wear and tear it will fade etc and the differences will not be noticeable to the rest of the public - but they don’t know there is even a issue anyway.
The point is that the owner wearing the jacket always will know.

 

[ausreenactor]

I realize that I may have been a bit extreme in my comment on this detail... Don't focus on that. I sincerely believe that in real life the jacket is really great. The decal is not perfect, but nobody in the street will say "hey ! your decal has the wrong typography".

Get the art to match the look...

 

[Chandler]

In all the years I’ve been wearing flight jackets around, I’ve only had one person identify my jacket as an A-2. One.

Same here, unfortunately it was a moment I wish I could get back.

Maybe 10 years ago I was standing in line at a store, waiting to get something for my wife and -- unfortunately -- was in a hurry.

Gentleman behind me says, "Nice A-2." Oh, thanks. "Had one myself, back in the war."

Of course, if I'd been sitting at a bar, not worrying about my wife's order or getting to where I needed to be -- the conversation would have come easily, but I stumbled -- like a kid meeting his favorite sports star.

I did ask him where he served and what he flew -- he was the navigator (IIRC) in a B-24 in the Pacific. But, I regret not having taken more time to talk with this gentleman.

Moral of the story kids, always expect the unexpected!

 

[WingAndaPrayer]

All true.
So it does beg the question why we insist that the A2 jacket we buy has to be that stitch by stitch, exact 1942 in a box replica etc etc.

Of course as it’s our money we want what we perceive to be the best. But if no one else knows really, who cares it might be said.

Well I guess we do so if something is wrong in this case - Decals - it needed to have been made correctly for the person who paid for and is the one wearing the jacket.

When you wear it you know it’s wrong. That’s reason enough to get details like that correct. Not to satisfy the uneducated public.

With wear and tear it will fade etc and the differences will not be noticeable to the rest of the public - but they don’t know there is even a issue anyway.
The point is that the owner wearing the jacket always will know.

Yeah, if I had know the decal was wonky I probably would have skipped it. But I was irritated for all of about 5 minutes. I still like how it looks.
If this had been a $1,500 GW or ELC, yes, I would be on the phone immediately to have this fixed. For me however, it doesn’t have to be “1942 inna box” accurate. Its just a reproduction and FiveStar comes the closest to that vs the amount I’m willing to spend. If I was going to drop that sort of money I wouldn’t muck around with a repro. I would buy a wearable original. Even then it might have some accuracy issues haha!

 

[B-Man2]

Yeah, if I had know the decal was wonky I probably would have skipped it. But I was irritated for all of about 5 minutes. I still like how it looks.
If this had been a $1,500 GW or ELC, yes, I would be on the phone immediately to have this fixed. For me however, it doesn’t have to be “1942 inna box” accurate. Its just a reproduction and FiveStar comes the closest to that vs the amount I’m willing to spend. If I was going to drop that sort of money I wouldn’t muck around with a repro. I would buy a wearable original. Even then it might have some accuracy issues haha!

Having handled a few originals, one of the things you learn is that the construction of them was anything but perfect . Most of us would have sent the originals back for some type of fix

 

[Smithy]

Having handled a few originals, one of the things you learn is that the construction of them was anything but perfect . Most of us would have sent the originals back for some type of fix

I've harped on about this here but this is so true, every single one of the A-2s we have/had at the museum were actually pretty wonky. One of the most noticeable things on each jacket was that the pockets were slightly out of alignment with the opposing side, around half an inch or so, so one pocket sat slightly higher than the other side. Each of them also had wavy and dodgy stitching in places, snaps were out of alignment and also on two of them the pocket flaps were larger than its respective pockets on one side.

All things that would make most on here have the vapours. I've always found this slightly amusing how with repros us guys are after "ultimate" accuracy, when if we really wanted this kind of level of accuracy to originals and the absolute real deal, you really need to go for a wonky jacket with wavy stitching and out of whack pockets, etc ;-)

 

[WingAndaPrayer]

Having handled a few originals, one of the things you learn is that the construction of them was anything but perfect . Most of us would have sent the originals back for some type of fix

Exactly. If the jacket meets the eyeball test I say wear it and don’t sweat the details. I don’t want to give myself a complex worrying about stitch count and the knits are rust colored, but are they rusty enough etc. considering how all over the map original jackets are. This is going’s to be wildly unpopular of me to say, but I think the 75-85% “close” jackets are more close to the original then GW, ELC et al, precisely because they are as perfectly imperfect as the originals were. Think about it? You’re the end of the line quality control person and you have a jacket that’s got a few loose threads, the pocket is a bit crooked etc and you have a GW quality jacket next to it with the precision stitching, drum tight knits, perfectly flush pockets etc that jacket is going to make you scratch your head because it’s too good compared to the rest of the lot! And then there’s the leather quality. I’ve not dealt with an original myself, but it seems the lower quality of leather jackets look closer to the originals then the high ends do out of the box. I know the tanning isn’t the same, but the originals are getting up there in age. So I guess in 80 years we can compare how close a 2021 FiveStar Dubow compares to a 2021 GW Dubow compares to a 1943 Dubow in its current state. At least our ghosts can haha.

 

[Smithy]

Exactly. If the jacket meets the eyeball test I say wear it and don’t sweat the details. I don’t want to give myself a complex worrying about stitch count and the knits are rust colored, but are they rusty enough etc. considering how all over the map original jackets are. This is going’s to be wildly unpopular of me to say, but I think the 75-85% “close” jackets are more close to the original then GW, ELC et al, precisely because they are as perfectly imperfect as the originals were. Think about it? You’re the end of the line quality control person and you have a jacket that’s got a few loose threads, the pocket is a bit crooked etc and you have a GW quality jacket next to it with the precision stitching, drum tight knits, perfectly flush pockets etc that jacket is going to make you scratch your head because it’s too good compared to the rest of the lot! And then there’s the leather quality. I’ve not dealt with an original myself, but it seems the lower quality of leather jackets look closer to the originals then the high ends do out of the box. I know the tanning isn’t the same, but the originals are getting up there in age. So I guess in 80 years we can compare how close a 2021 FiveStar Dubow compares to a 2021 GW Dubow compares to a 1943 Dubow in its current state. At least our ghosts can haha.

Military kit doesn't pass inspection due to aesthetics, it passes inspection primarily if it is capable of performing the job it was intended to do and over a reasonable timespan without failure.

This is the reason why A-2s (and other military kit) could have pockets out of alignment, wavy stitching, even an offset collar so long as it was manufactured to a level of sturdiness that meant that it would perform its intended function for a reasonable timeframe under operational conditions.

In terms of leather, I've asserted here sometimes that I think some of the higher end manufacturers choose leather which will make the jacket look like an 80 year old original in a short timeframe, rather than what the actual jacket would have looked like off the bat and even after some wear. The reason why originals look the way they do now is not just because of what they went through during the war but also 70 odd years of ageing afterwards and even in storage. Leather is an organic material and it changes over time due to age not just wear.

 

[ausreenactor]

FFP! Fit for purpose!

 

[WingAndaPrayer]

Military kit doesn't pass inspection due to aesthetics, it passes inspection primarily if it is capable of performing the job it was intended to do and over a reasonable timespan without failure.

This is the reason why A-2s (and other military kit) could have pockets out of alignment, wavy stitching, even an offset collar so long as it was manufactured to a level of sturdiness that meant that it would perform its intended function for a reasonable timeframe under operational conditions.

In terms of leather, I've asserted here sometimes that I think some of the higher end manufacturers choose leather which will make the jacket look like an 80 year old original in a short timeframe, rather than what the actual jacket would have looked like off the bat and even after some wear. The reason why originals look the way they do now is not just because of what they went through during the war but also 70 odd years of ageing afterwards and even in storage. Leather is an organic material and it changes over time due to age not just wear.

I was getting at that. I doubt any of us are going to war in an A2 anytime soon. My poorly made point is that our jackets aren’t real military kit. It’s fun to fret about the details but don’t take it too seriously. If it looks the part don’t stress the details and wear it. Otherwise it will take the joy out wearing your jacket and I don’t want that. I could have been disappointed about the decal to the point of selling it off right away. But I’m not going to let it bug me. I’ve seen a lot of people on here regret selling off a very nice jacket because of some trivial detail. I don’t want to be in that crowd of flagellants. My first FiveStar Dubow is the best fitting leather jacket I’ve ever owned. Period. And this second one promises to be better still because Shawn nailed down a sizing issue with the sleeves off my first one. It’s going to be a jacket I could very well live in and I would miss out on that if I let font issue bug me. I’ve had a high end A-2 before and I couldn’t put my arms down like the kid in that Christmas story movie, and it was a very polished, accurate jacket. I will take function over form any day
Just my opinion anyway.

 

[DJS48]

Hello ,
Is there any info on Shawn's FB page regarding the Poughkeepsie A-2?
Regards,
Don

 

[leper-colony]

No recent updates that I have seen.

 

[DJS48]

Thanks Mr. Leper........

 

[mulceber]

Hello ,
Is there any info on Shawn's FB page regarding the Poughkeepsie A-2?
Regards,
Don

I messaged him yesterday, and he told me that they have the materials and the pattern and, after Eid, they're going to make their prototype, and then they'll be available for sale. So it sounds like a couple weeks.

 

[DJS48]

Thank you and much appreciated.
Regards,
Don

 

[Skyhawk]

Just curious, does anyone know why some of their original contract A-2's sizing run from 3XS to 3XL?

 

[leper-colony]

Because they have customers of all sizes.

 

[mulceber]

To follow up on that, the sizes don't actually appear in the jacket as 3XS, 2XS, etc. Shawn converts them to their equivalent in numbered sizing and puts that on the label. I think the lettered sizing is a hold-over from when he was getting started.

 

[Skyhawk]

Oh that makes more sense.

 

[ausreenactor]

L

I messaged him yesterday, and he told me that they have the materials and the pattern and, after Eid, they're going to make their prototype, and then they'll be available for sale. So it sounds like a couple weeks.

Lightning 'fast'.... (get it)